Tom, that's a fascinating account, many thanks for sharing it. I think I know something of what you're talking about on the basis of a very brief glimpse I had awhile ago. It lasted no more than a minute or two, but it was really striking.
It was when I was resting after program. Normally during that period--unless I fall asleep!--I think about what's immediately going on in my life, my plans for the day or evening, stuff I'm working on, and so on. This time, the thoughts started flowing as usual, but there was something distinctly missing. None of it had any *charge*; none of it was important, none of it mattered. And I felt this deep sadness, this sense of great loss and emptiness. Nothing in my life had any meaning any longer. As I was contemplating this apparent disaster, I became aware of the Self very clearly, with the thoughts chugging away by themselves in the background. I couldn't sense any bliss, but I realized intellectually what must be going on, and that was enough to keep me from freaking out. After a minute or two the experience faded as if it had never been and meaning returned, but I've never forgotten it. I suspect the clear witnessing had triggered some unstressing, which was enough to overshadow any bliss but not the distinct separation of Self from activity--for those few minutes I was very much "neither here nor there." Later I was thinking about an episode of clinical depression I had gone through for some months several years before I'd begun TM, and comparing it to this experience after program. If I had described the after-program experience to a therapist, I'm quite sure the therapist would have concluded it was depression. But it was very different from the experience I'd had previously: during the clinical depression, there was no sense of Self; the sadness was anguished and anxious, whereas during the after-program experience it had somehow been peaceful, almost resigned, no sense of turmoil, no sense that I had to *do* something, change something, to recover what had been lost. It was gone, and that was all there was to it. There was nothing *to* be done. It wasn't painful, not something I had to make stop, just sad. I have no idea how I would have managed had that experience continued for any length of time. I would *hope* the intellectual understanding would have kept me from descending into the turmoil and anxiety of the earlier clinical depression, but who knows? Subsequent experiences of witnessing, after program and in activity, haven't been accompanied by that same sense of loss; it's been more a sense of *relief*, if not overwhelming bliss. Maybe I'll be lucky and won't have to go through months or years of meaninglessness with nothing to replace it when I get to that point on a long-term basis. I'm curious as to what Andy Rymer would have done to shorten your dark night. (I don't know who he is; I've just seen his name mentioned often by TMers.) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > My personal night of the soul was a little different than that > described on the web site. I think that description is the best I have > ever seen and can only add general comments to clarify my own > understanding. > The way it came down for me was a lot more of the No thing in the > relative did it for me anymore. My personal life enfoldment was > through addictions to just about anything that would go into my body > or any process. For me it was the fact that no thing in the relative > world did it any more. There was no joy in mudville any night. I can > remember taking delivery on a brand new car and I didn't even get it > off the lot before the damn thing gave no joy at all. I persisted in > my relationship with the wonderful lady who is now my wife but how she > managed is beyond me. I kind of had a little of the aloneness but the > predominance was that all the things and even the business I had been > in for 25 years just had zero joy. Food was like eating cream of wheat > with no salt. Sex was good when it happened but that depended more on > my partner than me. The main item was the knowledge that nothing in > the relative was going to bring joy ever again in the same old way it > had. The only thing left to do was put the head down and just keep > going. Even dieing didn't seem an option because I had already done > that and I knew I would just end up back in the same spot. I once read > a part of the comments in the Gita that it was like being in a boat > that would only take you half way to the other side. At some point you > would find yourself half way across and have one foot in the boat that > brought you out and the other foot in the boat from the other side. > There was this deep knowledge that the boat that brought you out was > sinking slowly and the one you had your other foot in was invisible. > There was a moment when you just have to give up the old boat and take > your chances in the invisible one. It seems to me that the darkest > spot is when you have one foot in either boat. At that point you are > totally in no place, no time, and nothing matters. You also reach a > point that just having something happening was a hell of a lot better > than this no thing bringing any joy. You also knew you were screwed; > no place to go and no way to fix it so you might as will go for broke. > Eventually it broke and now there is joy and laughter at the dumbest > things and every thing is funny in some odd and unpredictable way. > You can ask people who know me in FF and they will tell you I could > now be best described as the laughing fool. I had a conversation with > Andy Rymer once when I was in his class here in FF and he mentioned > that if we had gotten together then he would have been able to take > the three year period I was in this thing down to three to six months. > Living here in FF I can see how that would be possible if you had the > opportunity to hang out with others who have been down this path. One > very good and detailed accounting of this adventure is Bernadette > Roberts in her book "The Path of NO Self". A very detailed unfolding > of how it went down for her. It seems she was in it for a 2 or 3 year > time frame. Judy is right, if any one from any institution ever got to > ask you any questions they would lock you away so fast it would make > your head spin. I believe Paula Youmans mentioned on this chat that > her family did lock her up. See, once you asked to be awake, you > invited all your worst fears in to be faced down and taken back into > the wholeness you already are. The dissolution of old beliefs leads to > enough gap being available that you can finally stop ignoring that > which you have always been. Enjoy Tom T > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! 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