--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <sparaig@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Apr 9, 2006, at 4:59 AM, t3rinity wrote:
> > >
> > > > From what I know, and what I have seen
> > > > in the Satsang movement, this is exactly what is being done
> > there: The
> > > > truth of non-duality is being pointed out and explained in
terms
> > of
> > > > his own everyday experience, it is being discussed, and quite
> > often
> > > > people are guided towards self-inquiry ('who am I'.)
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes this is what is happening in some cases IMO. Pointing out.
> > > However at the same time after some are "introduced" they go
on
> > > rather quickly to claim Buddhahood, Unity Consciousness (brahma-
> > > chetana), Cosmic Consciousness (turiyatita) or in the case of
TMO
> > > people, they go on to claim what "Maharishi said". In every
case I
> > am
> > > aware of, none of these people would fit the definition of
those
> > > states or the experience. There's a strong element of
grandiosity
> > in
> > > it all.
> >
> > How do you know that such people don't fit the definition of
those
> > states or the experience? Fred Travis has acknowledged that there
IS
> > a tendency amongst some he interviewed for his Cosmic
Consciousness
> > research to parrot Movement-Speak concerning Cosmic
Consciousness.
> > However he did find consistent physiological differences between
> > TMers who reported 24/7 witnessing and those who didn't, even
though
> > the EEG *during* TM was pretty much the same in both groups. In
case
> > you're wondering,the EEG during samadhi episodes during TM
practice
> > becomes a "carrier" for normal waking, dreaming and sleeping EEG.
>
> I think Vaj's comments refer to a wide range of possible
phenomenon --
> few or perhaps any being countered by your examples.
>
> First, "he did find consistent physiological differences between
> TMers who reported 24/7 witnessing and those who didn't" does not
> establish that those reporting 24/7 eperiences actaully are. Or that
> they ARE cc as defined by MMY.
Well, if there's a consistent physiological state found in TM that is
greatly enhanced during periods associated in self-reports of
samadhi, and that same pattern is found superimposed on people who
report long-term (months or years at a time) "witnessing 24/7" but
not in people who don't report such periods, which, BTW, fits MMY's
definition of CC or at least the beginnings of CC, this seems
indicative of some consistency between theory, physiology, and
internal states.
>
> Second, it is more strange if someone is practicing TM for 30 years
> and NOT to have some clear and extended periods of Consciousness
being
> conscious of itself.
"extended" meaning months and years at a time in this case.
The issue that Vaj is apparently pointing out,
> and that I have previously, is that there appears to be a quick jump
> from some extended periods of Consciousness being conscious of
itself
> -- or even just momentary during discussions, to being in Brahman
> Consciousness -- brahma-chetana or beyond. And not much discussion
of
> the transition from a sustained dual state to the non-dual state.
>
> And some apparent muddled expositions of non-dual states -- with
> dual-state charaacteristics.
>
>
> Its for these two reasons, and others, that raise the possibilities
of
> sematic differences, and misinteretation of experiences as something
> more than they are. Its not clear that such people DO fit the
> definition of those states or the experience.
>
MMY's simple test for someone in Brahman Chetana is: "can they float?"
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