--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <no_reply@> > wrote: > > > > > I don't know about that. In the Satsangs that I observered, nobody > > > stands there saying: 'I am enlightened and you are not' I indeed have > > > never heard of this. > > > > I don't see Vaj stating that. You maybe are reading into his post > > something that is not in the words. > > Not if you read the quote of Vaj directly following the sentence I > commented on, that is: > " In every case I am aware of, none of these people would fit the > definition of those states or the experience. There's a strong element > of grandiosity in it all." (now buried under our two comments, but in > Vajs post the sentence that just followed.) Now referring to 'states > of experiences' and 'element of grandiosity', I don't see this in the > satsang scene. Period.
OK. Maybe I am not following all the thread. Small and perhaps unimportant point, but I still didnt see Vaj saying that in satsangs he has heard people say "I am enlightened and you are not". He said, as I understood in his view, people he has observed, from afar, in satsang, did not meet classic criteria. Anyway, I'll let Vaj clarify what he said, heard, heard only on a subtle plan, transmitted but did not speak, did not hear, or did not speak. :) > > I can't comment on the satsang scene, but my observations of things > > such as apparent confusion and "mixing" views of dual and non-dual > > states, and the apparent quick and unexplained jump from consciousness > > being aware of itself to Brahman Consciousness have been about posts > here. > > > Well, I was referring to actual Satsangs, that is meetings being held, > were questions are answered etc. Yes, so we are referring to two different things. Its not a wonder accurately we hear and read different things. :) > > > > There are so many Shankaracharyas, giving discourses on Advaita, > > > and they make no secret that they aren't enlightened. > > > > Which ones? And if they are not "enlightened" by their definitions > > (classical) -- perhaps theirs is a "higher" bar than those > > self-proclaiming it. > > I can show you the website of the Sringeri Shankaracharya, where it is > explicitely stated that one particular Shankaracharya was a rare Jivan > Mukthi, which means the others ore not. Its a traditionaly post, just > like the Pope, it doesn't imply enlightenment. It means they have to > be learned in a number of scriptures, have to be Brahmins, and devoted > to the tradition and selected by their predecessor. As I recall, MMY said enlightenment was also one of the criteria. Or something like "knowledge of the vedas and direct experience of thier reality." But its a bit vague in my memory. I had a personal audience with the S. of Puri,the prior one. I did not sense a great darshan, but that does not mean much. I also had a small group audience with the S. of Kanchi where he performed a wonderful puja. The one that is now in jail. I was more impressed by him, but not overwhelmed. Again, these are superfical impressions. > > Again, not the case with posts here. > > Again I am not referring to posts, but to Satsangs, ie. meetings as > Rick has suggested to be visited to Vaj, which was the origin of this > subthread. Understood. In this thread, people are making observations about distinct, though related things. No harm, no foul, as long as thats understood. > (Rick didn't suggest to Vaj to read the posts of Jim or > whomever, he does this anyway.) And I don't know the Satsangs in the > particular TM subculture. Its besides the point also since Vaj was > referring to the larger Satsang culture himself. Fine. But my comments were specifically about FFL posts. > > > > > I was investigating the Satsang movement in the context of its > > > historic origin, > > > > which is good to do > > Right > > > > > while you mix it with Zen Buddhism and Tibetan > > > Vajrayana. Now that is weird. > > > > well, the discussion has been on "modern" neo-statangs, the FF > > satsang, and pirmarily, IMO, posts on FFL. > > Well, I am talking of neo advaita as well. I don't know about the > particular FFL Satsangs, maybe Rick can say something about this and > how they are different to lets say Satsangs of Gangaji or Isaac or I > don't know whom. I definitly didn't refer as Satsang to posts here, > since they are greatly mixed, and Satsang means comming together in > truth, and not reading or exchanging views over the net. I think it > needs a certain setting, and that is what I was referring to. OK. Point understood. Though, to me, the better parts of FFL, which have not manifested much in the last several years, are both a sharing of eperiences, and View(s), a respectful yet deep inquiry into them. Something along live satsang lines as I understand it. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
