"I can't resist suggesting that perhaps the concept that seemed so powerful and important *was itself limited* as it existed in your mind at the time, and that at a certain point you had grown beyond what it meant to you then--but for various reasons, instead of letting the concept expand along with you, you left it where it was and went off in a different direction.
To put it another way, you had a whole lot of bathwater you had to dump in terms of having been heavily involved with the organization and its dogmas and having a personal need to separate yourself from all that in order to breathe. And the baby swimming around therein was still just a baby, so underdeveloped intellectually you couldn't easily connect it to the growth you were experiencing in your life." It seems from people posting on this group that many have grown and expanded their relationship with MMY in the way you describe. Seeing the changes in how people relate to the movement and spirituality in general has been interesting. I was happy to move on when I did, although it did surprise me at first. I don't regret that my involvement was very intense. I know it is a different perspective for someone like yourself who always had a separate identity outside the group. Your way sounds more psychologically healthy from my present point of view. It doesn't surprise me that you have found a balance that you enjoy and value. For me it was very different, and not only in a negative way. Since I did take MMY at his word, pursuing his programs as he laid them out seemed a rational choice for me. I am glad that I took it to the limit and tested his ideas as throughly as I did. I certainly don't look back and think "if only I had..." Now I can't claim to speak for anyone else in this regard. We all have to pursue our own style of living. I loved being in TM intensely, and I love my current non-spiritual life. My reasons for leaving TM were different from many others who left TM and spoke about it. I was not a disgruntled member. I had wonderful experiences and insights and had balanced my personal and professional life when I decided to leave. I was teaching part-time and enjoying a great real estate market, so I thought I had it all. I had the bucks to enjoy the privileged side of TMO with its better access to MMY than I had as a full-time member. As I mentioned many times, it was an unexpected cognitive shift that changed everything for me. But I do respect other people's choices with spirituality. I don't forget the value it had for me. I just see it all differently now for my own life. So much of what you said seems to be a natural pattern of growing up with our ideas whatever they are. I suspect that I am neither uniquely flawed nor gifted in intellectual awareness, in or out of TMO. I also recognize that this group is far from TMO is so many important ways. Ways that make this group a much nicer and more interesting group to interact with. I have not been able to have a mutually respectful conversation with anyone still in the group mindset. I suspect some of the people here have similar experiences although mine may be a little more intense because I publicly spoke out against the TMO, breaking the most important "no talk" rule of any dysfunctional family! But in the end the exchange of ideas and perspectives is valuable and more important fun. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > Great points. Thanks for taking the time. I will take a little > time > > to make sure I let them sink in. > > > > I can't resist this one to start: > > > > The irony is that if what you're calling the "group 'I'" > > > is in fact the case, it means you are infinitely more > > > than just the currently living bodymind called "Curtis." > > > From that perspective, what you "love most about being > > > alive" is absurdly limited. > > > > Since I handed over my eternal soul at the crossroads for a few > > guitar licks I may be stuck with my limits! > > Maybe there are some more licks still out there? > > > This notion doesn't *reduce* what you love most about > > > being alive; it *expands* it beyond any limitation. > > > All you have to give up is the limitations! > > > > Expansion beyond limitations seemed so inspiring to me at one time. > > Now the words leave me cold. I know it will sound like MMY's "My > > hut, my hut", but the joy of my life all comes from the details and > > limitations. Do you relate to this more as a concept or is it tied > > to the expansive sense of euphoria in the program for you? I can > > remember it in both contexts. > > Both, as you remember it, and more. > > What appeals to me is the expanded *range of choice*. > Working with details and within limitations is one of > the choices; the ability to do that doesn't get > withdrawn. But you can set the limitations wherever > you want to, or drop them altogether if you feel like > doing that. You aren't limited to one set of > limitations, in other words, nor are you limited as > to how far you can go in exploring one particular set. > > This is so abstract it's hard to get across, but do > you remember I said my experience of development of > consciousness was one of increasing transparency? Part > of that is that limitations become transparent. They're > still there, but they don't block what's beyond them. > > > Funny how something that seemed so > > overwhelmingly powerful and important at the time has vanished as a > > value in my life. > > I can't resist suggesting that perhaps the concept > that seemed so powerful and important *was itself > limited* as it existed in your mind at the time, > and that at a certain point you had grown beyond > what it meant to you then--but for various reasons, > instead of letting the concept expand along with > you, you left it where it was and went off in a > different direction. > > To put it another way, you had a whole lot of > bathwater you had to dump in terms of having been > heavily involved with the organization and its dogmas > and having a personal need to separate yourself from > all that in order to breathe. And the baby swimming > around therein was still just a baby, so underdeveloped > intellectually you couldn't easily connect it to > the growth you were experiencing in your life. > > If my concept of "expansion beyond limitations" was > the same now as it was a few decades ago, I would no > longer find it very appealing either. But I didn't > have any bathwater to dump, because my involvement > with the organization has never been more than > peripheral; so I didn't have any problem taking the > concept along with me and letting it grow in accord > with my experience. > > Curious really. Consciousness really is amazing > > almost any way you look at it. > > Ain't nothing more enthralling, by me. And the > more you look at it, the more enthralling it gets. > > I do want to spend some time thinking > > about the limits of science you presented. That is fascinating. > > Enjoy! Heh heh. > ------------------------ Yahoo! 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