Thanks for the reply. Lifton and Singer established 8 principles from their work with Korean war vets. I don't know Lifton but did know the late Margret Singer. She was fascinated by how some modern groups had refined the techniques to become less obvious and more subtle. I think this is a case of knowledge being power. Knowing the techniques makes it more difficult to apply them. Even some sales seminars I have attended have tried to pull some of these techniques on me, but once it is identified, it loses a lot of its power to influence.
I appreciated your assessment of people's ability to discuss topics reasonably. I find that to be true of most people when it comes to deeply held, and particularly spiritual beliefs, not just in the movement. Instilling a phobic response to questioning beliefs is a characteristic to watch for that makes some groups better at inhibiting critical thinking. My definition of what and who "the movement" is has changed considerably for me from posting here and corresponding with people like yourself. It seems there is a small group of people clustered around the dudes with the Raja crowns, and a much larger, and more interesting, group who has taken what is valuable from their TM experience and moved on. Although I don't meditate myself, I will always be interested in and connected with TM as part of my history. I have enjoyed getting to know the new, cooler movement. living outside the Raja-domains! When I was in the movement I was only interested in getting closer and closer to MMY. Now, the farther people are from him the more interesting they are to me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Responses interleaved. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > " presence in the Dome would be "disruptive". > > > > Disruptive? " > > > > What is disrupted is Milieu Control. I'm sure everyone here is hip to > > that Lifton concept. http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm > > ******** > > Nice link. I've seen lists of 20 or so cult charcteristics, but this one is both precise and > comprehensive. > > ******** > > > > Since so many quality people have bailed on letting them work their > > mojo, it seems like they are just acting out of habit. The movement > > seems to lack the ability to create a new organization that respects > > mature individuals with enough spiritual and life experience to decide > > things for themselves. It worked better when everyone was in their > > 20's and less self-assured. From the outside it is fascinating to see > > them try to cast the same old spells their a broken wands. > > ******** > > Yes, numerous people here have noted the contradiction inherent in treating aging, long- > term devotees as children and neophytes. Of course, there actually are a small number > who still prefer it that way. > > ******** > > > > I wonder if Lifton has studied the oppositional reflex that must exist > > even in devoted members, who are still close to the organization. It > > seems as if the innocence is so long gone that the movement's words > > would have a completely different effect by this time. > > > > When I talk with people who still do the program about the movement, > > there is so much eye-rolling that it makes me wonder who is more > > turned off to the "teaching". My guess is that although FFL is a > > small group who are willing to speak up, the eclectic lifestyle and > > practices represented here is more reflective of the majority of > > people still involved with TM than the old-school hardline. I meet > > people who keep their feelings and practices to themselves for fear of > > being cut out of courses. I would love to know the numbers on both > > these sides. > > ******** > > The hard core are definitely a minority here, although there are severe methodological and > sociological barriers to establishing the numbers. > > Even the more hip and liberated TMers often have localized "hot buttons" around certain > topics, like M's infallibility or Sthapathya Ved, etc. As a result, FF can be a conversational > mine field. > > L B S > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" <l_b_shriver@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Yeah, that "disruptive" thing is tough to figure out. They are > > claiming that it's the decisive > > > factor in "most" of the rejections, which totalled 16 when I first > > applied a couple of weeks > > > ago. I know 4 or 5 of them personally and still don't get it. For > > example, what's so fucking > > > disruptive about David Hawthorne? I'm sure Tim Britton would leave > > his bagpipes outside > > > if they asked him nicely. Were they expecting Shiva Ma to perform > > homa on the foma? > > > Could it be that David Bousefield was going to ambush CPs with his > > outlaw Deeksha? > > > > > > L B S > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" > > <dhamiltony2k5@> wrote: > > > > > > > > presence in the Dome would be "disruptive". > > > > Disruptive? Hah,it is about MOJO. Oh heck L B, Bevan just thinks > > > > you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is > > > > pretty obvious. Yeah, you're just a weapon of mass destruction in > > > > their book. > > > > > > > > Best Regards fra FF, > > > > > > > > -Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh BTW, L B, the next time you try to apply they will take you to > > > > the library basement where normal people do not go and then show you > > > > the 'rack'. It worked on Galileo. It worked on that wrong thinking > > > > before, you'll sing like a bird too recanting everything and signing > > > > about anything to git back in. Appeasement, it did not work before > > > > with Hilter either. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" > > > > <l_b_shriver@> wrote:The resistance to my acceptance is pretty > > > > localized in the upper regions of the > > > > administration, although the perception there is that it is more > > > > widespread. > > > > Therefore > > > > there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would > > > > be "disruptive". > > > > > > > > Doug writing: oh heck LB, they just think you got more MOJO than > > > > Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply below. > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" > > > > <dhamiltony2k5@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > "L B Shriver" <l_b_shriver@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends at FFLife, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered > > > > eligible > > > > > > at this time to > > > > > > participate, after nearly a month of having my application "in > > > > > > process"." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course not. They would have to eat way too much crow to let > > > > you in. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Doug in FF > > > > > > > > > > ******** > > > > > > > > > > The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper > > > > regions of the > > > > > administration, although the perception there is that it is more > > > > widespread. Therefore > > > > > there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would > > > > be "disruptive". This is essentially > > > > > the Weapons of Mass Destruction argument—it is convenient, but > > > > doesn't match the facts > > > > > on the ground. They don't perceive that most people would rather > > > > have them let me in and > > > > > drop this blacklisting bullshit. > > > > > > > > > > Despite that, my application actually did get into the region > > > > where acceptance was a > > > > > possibility. There just wasn't enough momentum behind it to carry > > > > it through this time. > > > > > > > > > > From my point of view, this situation represents progress, and I > > > > believe that if you want > > > > > more of something in life, it's good to show appreciation. > > > > > > > > > > L B S > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! 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