Sir Rick, Here is a Strange comment found on another forum. What is your opinion on it.??
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1972342
The end of the war with Iran served to deepen latent tensions between Iraq and its wealthy neighbor Kuwait. Saddam saw his war with Iran as having spared Kuwait from the imminent threat of Iranian domination. Since the struggle with Iran had been fought for the benefit of the other Gulf Arab states as much as for Iraq, he argued, a share of Iraqi debt should be forgiven. Saddam urged the Kuwaitis to forgive the Iraqi debt accumulated
in the war, some $30 billion, but the Kuwaitis refused, claiming that Saddam was responsible to pay off his debts for the war he started. Not only that but also
to raise money for postwar reconstruction, Saddam pushed oil-exporting countries to raise oil prices by cutting back oil production. Kuwait refused to cut production. In addition to refusing the request, Kuwait spearheaded the opposition in OPEC to the cuts that Saddam had requested. Kuwait was pumping large amounts of oil, and thus keeping prices low, when Iraq needed to sell high-priced oil from its wells to pay off a huge debt. Meanwhile, Saddam showed disdain for the Kuwait-Iraq boundary line (imposed on Iraq by British imperial officials in 1922) because it almost completely cut Iraq off from the sea. One of the few articles of faith uniting the political scene in a nation rife with sharp social, ethnic, religious, and socioeconomic divides was the belief that Kuwait had no right to even exist in the first place. For at least half a century, Iraqi nationalists were espousing emphatically the belief that Kuwait was historically an integral part of Iraq, and that Kuwait had only come into being through the maneuverings of British imperialism. The colossal extent of Kuwaiti oil reserves also intensified tensions in the region. The oil reserves of Kuwait (with a population of a mere 2 million next to Iraq's 25) were roughly equal to those of Iraq. Taken together, Iraq and Kuwait sat on top of some 20% of the world's known oil reserves; Saudi Arabia, by comparison, holds 25%. The Kuwaiti monarchy further angered Saddam by allegedly slant drilling oil out of wells that Iraq considered to be within its disputed border with Kuwait. Given that at the time Iraq was not regarded as a pariah state, Saddam was able to complain about the alleged slant drilling to the U.S. State Department. Although this had continued for years, Saddam now needed oil money to stem a looming economic crisis. Saddam still had an experienced and well-equipped army, which he used to influence regional affairs. He later ordered troops to the Iraq-Kuwait border. As Iraq-Kuwait relations rapidly deteriorated, Saddam was receiving conflicting information about how the U.S. would respond to the prospects of an invasion. For one, Washington had been taking measures to cultivate a constructive relationship with Iraq for roughly a decade. The U.S. also sent billions of dollars to Saddam to keep him from forming a strong alliance with the Soviets. The U.S. ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie met with Saddam in an emergency meeting on July 25, 1990, where the Iraqi leader stated his intention to continue talks. U.S. officials attempted to maintain a conciliatory line with Iraq, indicating that while George H. W. Bush and James Baker did not want force used, they would not take any position on the Iraq-Kuwait boundary dispute and did not want to become involved. The transcript, however, does not show any explicit statement of approval of, acceptance of, or foreknowledge of the invasion (the transcript only that is). Later, Iraq and Kuwait then met for a final negotiation session, which failed. Saddam then sent his troops into Kuwait.
to raise money for postwar reconstruction, Saddam pushed oil-exporting countries to raise oil prices by cutting back oil production. Kuwait refused to cut production. In addition to refusing the request, Kuwait spearheaded the opposition in OPEC to the cuts that Saddam had requested. Kuwait was pumping large amounts of oil, and thus keeping prices low, when Iraq needed to sell high-priced oil from its wells to pay off a huge debt. Meanwhile, Saddam showed disdain for the Kuwait-Iraq boundary line (imposed on Iraq by British imperial officials in 1922) because it almost completely cut Iraq off from the sea. One of the few articles of faith uniting the political scene in a nation rife with sharp social, ethnic, religious, and socioeconomic divides was the belief that Kuwait had no right to even exist in the first place. For at least half a century, Iraqi nationalists were espousing emphatically the belief that Kuwait was historically an integral part of Iraq, and that Kuwait had only come into being through the maneuverings of British imperialism. The colossal extent of Kuwaiti oil reserves also intensified tensions in the region. The oil reserves of Kuwait (with a population of a mere 2 million next to Iraq's 25) were roughly equal to those of Iraq. Taken together, Iraq and Kuwait sat on top of some 20% of the world's known oil reserves; Saudi Arabia, by comparison, holds 25%. The Kuwaiti monarchy further angered Saddam by allegedly slant drilling oil out of wells that Iraq considered to be within its disputed border with Kuwait. Given that at the time Iraq was not regarded as a pariah state, Saddam was able to complain about the alleged slant drilling to the U.S. State Department. Although this had continued for years, Saddam now needed oil money to stem a looming economic crisis. Saddam still had an experienced and well-equipped army, which he used to influence regional affairs. He later ordered troops to the Iraq-Kuwait border. As Iraq-Kuwait relations rapidly deteriorated, Saddam was receiving conflicting information about how the U.S. would respond to the prospects of an invasion. For one, Washington had been taking measures to cultivate a constructive relationship with Iraq for roughly a decade. The U.S. also sent billions of dollars to Saddam to keep him from forming a strong alliance with the Soviets. The U.S. ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie met with Saddam in an emergency meeting on July 25, 1990, where the Iraqi leader stated his intention to continue talks. U.S. officials attempted to maintain a conciliatory line with Iraq, indicating that while George H. W. Bush and James Baker did not want force used, they would not take any position on the Iraq-Kuwait boundary dispute and did not want to become involved. The transcript, however, does not show any explicit statement of approval of, acceptance of, or foreknowledge of the invasion (the transcript only that is). Later, Iraq and Kuwait then met for a final negotiation session, which failed. Saddam then sent his troops into Kuwait.
On August 2, 1990, Saddam invaded and annexed the oil-rich emirate of Kuwait. U.S. President George H. W. Bush responded cautiously for the first several days after the invasion. On the one hand, Kuwait, prior to this point, had been a virulent enemy of Israel and was on friendly terms with the Soviets. On the other hand, Iraq controlled ten percent of the world's crude oil reserves and with the invasion had doubled the percentage. U.S. interests were heavily invested in the region and the invasion triggered fears that the price of oil, and therefore the world economy, was at stake. The United Kingdom was also concerned. Britain had a close historical relationship with Kuwait, dating back to British colonialism in the region, and also benefited from billions of dollars in Kuwaiti investment. British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher underscored the risk the invasion posed to Western interests to Bush in an in-person meeting one day after the invasion, famously telling him, "Don't go wobbly on me, George." Cooperation between the United States and the Soviet Union made possible the passage of resolutions in the United Nations Security Council giving Iraq a deadline to leave Kuwait and approving the use of force if Saddam did not comply with the timetable. U.S. officials feared that Iraq would retaliate against oil-rich Saudi Arabia, a close ally of Washington since the 1940s, for the Saudis' opposition to the invasion of Kuwait. Accordingly, the U.S. and a group of allies, including countries as diverse as Egypt, Syria and Czechoslovakia, deployed massive amounts of troops along the Saudi border with Kuwait and Iraq in order to encircle the Iraqi army, the largest in the Middle East. During the period of negotiations and threats following the invasion, Saddam focused renewed attention on the Palestinian problem by promising to withdraw his forces from Kuwait if Israel would relinquish the occupied territories in the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and the Gaza Strip. Saddam's proposal further split the Arab world, pitting U.S. and Western-supported Arab states against the Palestinians. The allies ultimately rejected any connection between the Kuwait crisis and Palestinian issues. Saddam ignored the Security Council deadline. With unanimous backing from the Security Council, a U.S.-led coalition launched round-the-clock missile and aerial attacks on Iraq, beginning January 16, 1991. Israel, though subjected to attack by Iraqi missiles, refrained from retaliating in order not to provoke Arab states into leaving the coalition. A ground force comprised largely of U.S. and British armored and infantry divisions ejected Saddam's army from Kuwait in February 1991 and occupied the southern portion of Iraq as far as the Euphrates. Before leaving, Saddam ordered the oil wells across Kuwait to be torched. On March 6, 1991, referring to the conflict, Bush announced: "What is at stake is more than one small country, it is a big idea - a new world order, where diverse nations are drawn together in common cause to achieve the universal aspirations of mankind: peace and security, freedom, and the rule of law."
In the end, the over-manned and under-equipped Iraqi army proved unable to compete on the battlefield with the highly mobile coalition land forces and their overpowering air support. Some 175,000 Iraqis were taken prisoner and casualties were estimated at approximately 20,000 according to U.S. data, with other sources pinning the number as high as 100,000.
On June 26, 1993, the U.S. launched a missile attack targeting Baghdad intelligence headquarters.
The UN sanctions placed upon Iraq when it invaded Kuwait were not lifted, blocking Iraqi oil exports. This caused immense hardship in Iraq and virtually destroyed the Iraqi economy and state infrastructure.
Isolated military strikes by U.S. and British forces continued on Iraq sporadically, the largest being Operation Desert Fox in 1998.
Sites thought to contain illegal weapons were claimed as the reasons for crises between 1997 and 1998, culminating in intensive U.S. and British missile strikes on Iraq.
In October 1998, President Clinton signed the Iraq Liberation Act. The act calls for "regime change" in Iraq and authorizes the funding of opposition groups.
U.S. and British warplanes struck hard at sites near Baghdad in February, 2001
CBS News has learned that barely five hours after American Airlines Flight 77 ploughed into the Pentagon, Defence Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld was telling his aides to come up with plans for striking Iraq even though there was no evidence linking Saddam Hussein to the attacks.
That's according to notes taken by aides who were with Rumsfeld in the National Military Command Centre on Sept. 11 notes that show exactly where the road toward war with Iraq began.
At 9:53 a.m., just 15 minutes after the hijacked plane had hit the Pentagon, and while Rumsfeld was still outside helping with the injured, the National Security Agency, which monitors communications worldwide, intercepted a phone call from one of Osama bin Laden's operatives in Afghanistan to a phone number in the former Soviet Republic of Georgia.
The caller said he had "heard good news" and that another target was still to come; an indication he knew another airliner, the one that eventually crashed in Pennsylvania, was at that very moment zeroing in on Washington.
It was 12:05 p.m. when the director of Central Intelligence told Rumsfeld about the intercepted conversation.
Rumsfeld felt it was "vague," that it "might not mean something," and that there was "no good basis for hanging hat." In other words, the evidence was not clear-cut enough to justify military action against bin Laden.
But later that afternoon, the CIA reported the passenger manifests for the hijacked airliners showed three of the hijackers were suspected al Qaeda operatives.
"One guy is associate of Cole bomber," the notes say, a reference to the October 2000 suicide boat attack on the USS Cole in Yemen, which had also been the work of bin Laden.
With the intelligence all pointing toward bin Laden, Rumsfeld ordered the military to begin working on strike plans. And at 2:40 p.m., the notes quote Rumsfeld as saying he wanted "best info fast. Judge whether good enough hit S.H." meaning Saddam Hussein "at same time. Not only UBL" the initials used to identify Osama bin Laden.
Now, nearly one year later, there is still very little evidence Iraq was involved in the Sept. 11 attacks. But if these notes are accurate, that didn't matter to Rumsfeld.
"Go massive," the notes quote him as saying. "Sweep it all up. Things related and not."
The domestic political situation changed in the U.S. after the September 11, 2001 attacks, which bolstered the influence of the neoconservative faction in the presidential administration and throughout Washington. Bush and his cabinet repeatedly linked the Hussein government to the 9/11 attacks on the basis of an alleged meeting in Prague in April 2001 involving an Iraqi intelligence agent and other evidence.
Both a Senate Select Committee and the 9/11 Commission failed to uncover convincing evidence of such a link. In his January 2002 state-of-the-union message to Congress, President George W. Bush spoke of an "axis of evil" comprised of Iran, North Korea, and Iraq. Moreover, Bush announced that he would possibly take action to topple the Iraqi government.
It sounds more like Iraq is the one being constantly threatened and attacked, your own Senate Select Committee and 9/11 Commission failed to find any connection and I am sure they tried very hard. Yet America invaded Iraq after leaving them to hang in the wind and then continuing to beat it down with sanctions and military action when they did not get what they had hoped for on a premise that there were weapons of mass destruction, but low and behold they found none. Some might say he got all of those massive weapons of destruction out on truck convoys, do you really think that the American military with all of it satelites and survaliacne planes etc, would not have seen even one of those supposed trucks. Amazing that all of those trucks got through the tightly woven web that America and its allies had woven around Iraq borders. Not one spy, not one informer, not one weapon.
I also find it interesting George W. Bush says that the axis of evil is comprised of Iran, North Korea and Iraq. North Korea is known to have an arsenal of bio chemical weapons and has strong evidence of nuclear weapons for which they are soon possibly going to test. Yet George W. Bush decides to attack Iraq with the supposed WMD and oh yes OIL and not North Korea with actual WMD and oh yes NO OIL.
1972342
Middle east? Been there. Done that. Got the T-shirt (it's tan, btw)
If you guys wanted to do something useful, a handy dandy 'regime change' in Iran (just as easy to spell as Iraq) would be way higher on my list than getting rid of Saddam. But no, rather than leave the secular 'church-out-of-state's-bed' leaders alone and effect some real change in the region, in lockstep with the Afghan mission, and bringing Persia out of the dark ages with a FORWARDS THIS TIME revolution, what do you do? Return to the same place as the last chapter in the inbred family feud.
Le resultat? Every mullah, ayatollah (except me, but I'm an honourary ayatollah), and piss-ant tribal religious cheif/gangboss tightens his grip with three fingers while pointing with his fourth at what happens when anyone but a shia muslim is in charge.
Ayoye. Everybody knows about the 2nd ammendment but have you checked out Iran's constitution? Seriously. it's right at the top: The mandate of the islamic something or other of Iran is to establish a universal muslim government. In this case universal means earth, (as islam is a little too narrow a band of thought to consider reaching for the stars). Obviously that won't happen, but monotheists tend to hold on to their belief that anyone can be converted. By a little force.....
Of course real persians aren't like that. They're just not represented at all in the government of their country. Of course I have my own motives: I just hope some stupid mullahs and americans don't blow up the place, because I'm still looking to find a pair of nice zoroastarian twin sisters to marry.......
You know, I have visited 6 countries that you could call arab or muslim majority countries. I have read the Koran. In 3 languages. I have personally sent 5.56 mm wide pieces of death in the very precise direction of a few somebodies' vital organs. When I was 20 years old, too! I am no fan of Islam at all. At all. I rate it just below the other monos (theists, not nucleosis), but just slightly above banging one's head against the floor. It accomplishes very very little. When war got beyond cavalry and horse
archers, the muslim tacticians faded out of style. I assure you, islam will not be the downfall of your precious country. It's just not that smart. However, though it falls far short in it's ability to do harm as a collective, the people, all people are just not that stupid. Not stupid enough to not recognize the artificially contstructed inequity in every aspect of life that can contribute to it's quality. Don't give me the 'they're just jealous of our money, so they hate us'. Well they never attacked Monaco, did they? All the teevee got out of me that day (khabuhm day, 2001) was a 'Gee, like they didn't have any enemies.......' There's more to it than that. Your very handle on alt may yet yield a clue.
Did you know the Red Chinese are going to kill your children and grandchildren?!? I promise they will. Or, more specifically the red-chinese-who-now-that-they-can-afford-not-to-starve-start-buying-cheap-fossile-fuel-powered-cars-just-like-ours-which-triples-the-number-of-tailpipes-choking-the-life-out-of-everyone-on-this-planet.
Not exactly the Fu Manchu you were hoping for, was it?
Your war industry, and it IS and industry feeds your oil industry, and your oil industry feeds your greed. Yours is perhaps the only country in the world with the resources and talent pool to overcome the looming energy crisis, yet you squander your talents and secure your positions in the oil game. You publish paper after speech after press release that there are at least 20, 50 or 150 year's worth of oil left..... DID THE STONE AGE END WHEN WE RAN OUT OF STONES?!?!?!
Been to Bolivia? Cuba? Brazil? Argentina? I assure you, the 'venemous hatred' is not a phenomenon unique to the middle east. It would be a look of pity if only it weren't for the fact that all the inhabitants of this blue marble share more or less the same fate.
Be nice to my planet, or I'll kick you off, mother earth bless the serpent of eden.
Have a nice day
Nikolaj
In a way, it does, but that gets us back to the stone age of Viet Nam. Support the people who are being used as troops, wish them back where they belong. Condemn the soulless human mockeries who sent them, make regime changes that reflect an understanding that there definitely is taxation without representation and how wrong that is, and pull the right heads together in an attempt to recreate government that works for its people rather than the other way around.
Anyone read Lincoln on Leadership? When I was a school administrator, my superintendent gave me a copy.
Mounten
"The enemy aggressor is always pursuing a course of larceny, murder, rapine, and barbarism. We are always moving forward with high mission, a destiny imposed by the deity to regenerate our victims while incidentally capturing their markets, to civilize savage and senile and paranoidal peoples while blundering accidentally into their oil wells or metal mines."
John T. Flynn, As We Go Marching(1944)
"Can anything be stupider than that a man has the right to kill me because he lives on the other side of a river and his ruler has a quarrel with mine, though I have not quarrelled with him?" Blaise Pascal
Roadlsst
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