Judy, Our views represent two ways of looking at the same facts. We seem to be looking at it through the lenses of our different experiences with MMY. The whole exercise of re-looking at Guru Dev was a self exploration of my POV these days. I understand the view of GD as a super special divine guy and I think I understand your more moderate but respectful view of him as a product of his time and place. I was giving my gut reaction to the claims made in MMY's PR piece knowing what I do about how MMY operates.
I think there is more info about this to uncover. We might even find out if the story about the river goddess was created by GD himself. (that is my guess. I'm thinking the event came after an especially long walk in the sun without food for days while his negligent middle class family was safely back home eating Goulab Jamins coated with gold foil. As an aside, the tradition of the day was to deliver a kid to an adult teacher to take care of him. Letting him walk off was just as much an aberration of parental responsibility as it is today. His folks still get a spot on the "Tough Love for Parents" - Dr. Phil Special) I'll look up my "Whole Thing Real Thing" book. I used to be in written contact with Dr. Varma. He was a really gracious guy. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Judy "That some invented a story about a "magic box" > as the source of Guru Dev's funds isn't MMY's > or Guru Dev's fault unless they themselves were > promoting it." > > Me: They were probably just the victim of a person making > up stories about his miraculous abilities to make him look > amazing...oh wait... > > MMY: "He combines in himself the Knowledge of the self with > the mysterious powers -- the sidhis arising out of yogic > perfection and hard penances, which he has undergone > throughout his life." > > Me: So you are saying that he was only implying that particular > miracle in that particular piece while referring to other ones? MMY, as I said, didn't imply any particular miracle in that particular piece. In the other piece you just quoted, he made a general pro forma reference, pretty much de rigeur for a realized Indian master. When you hear someone introduce a candidate for office as "The next president of the United States," and the candidate then loses the election, do you then say to yourself, "That scoundrel who introduced the candidate before the election was lying"? I'm not sure where you got the idea about how realized people get introduced, ever been to India? Ever seen another supposedly realized guy get introduced? This is a made up perspective. It is just as likely that mentioning Sidhis is just as tacky for religious people in India as here. Remember he was representing a high formal office. My Indian friends here view sidhis claims as ludicrously as we view the healing claims of televangelists. This is also a common educated Indian view of MMY, as a Hindu Televangelist. The closer example would be Benny Hin's claims of curing cancer being met with the appropriate skepticism. Claiming unproven miracles to market spirituality is crass and deserves to be ridiculed. It doesn't serve spiritually minded people to protect this kind of obvious confidence game. Plus, I believe he was lying. I don't think Guru Dev could do magical things. His minimalistic camping style might get a nod in Patagonia catalog in their gore tex doti section,. Your example about the candidate has nothing to do with this. MMY is not claiming what he will become in the future, he is claiming it is true now. Claiming that a person is God's gift to India is exaggeration for effect. Claiming miracles to influence superstitions people is MMY being P.T. Barnum. > I'm gunna go with the assumption that the young, endlessly > ambitious MMY promoted the story to make GD look like a the > rock star of yogis. Yeah, very scientific of you to make this assumption for which there is no evidence. The epistemology in the scientific method is not the right proof system for historical opinions. Here consistency of behavior carries more weight since we lack clear evidence. MMY is a known exaggerator and has promised non existent miracles as recently as his presentation of the sidhis. It is no big jump to say that the writer of the PR puff piece might be making up miracle stories to increase hype. Your thinking is so very rigid when it suits your purposes, and so very flexible when that works better for you. Agreed. It has taken me years of self development to achieve this. > BTW what is the SCI view on the mechanics of penances > in gaining magical powers? Non sequitur. It was a secondary point I was bringing up. MMY is claiming that Guru Dev did penances to achieve magical powers. I appreciate the discussion. Thanks. And I note you chose to ignore these points: > > It's perfectly plausible that Guru Dev had a > > source of funds other than donations from > > disciples and visitors--even, perhaps, his own > > inheritance, as Marek suggested; or some major > > behind-the-scenes donors who weren't "disciples" > > strictly speaking. <snip> > > In a publicity piece like this, MMY isn't going > > to go into the intricacies of funding the math; > > all he's trying to do is encourage people to > > come hear Guru Dev, including poor people who > > might not otherwise attend because they > > couldn't afford the donation they assumed would > > be expected of them.
