I am in digest mode so the subject line thing is going to be a little "off" for me since I am not responding to one email at a time.
Anyway, hi Barb! Good to see you're still around.
Well this morning Andy pooped and it was pretty much just blood. Not even tar-like anymore. He also did the foam puking thing. Needless to say we are going back to the vet tomorrow. She did say that the tarry stool means there is blood in his digestive tract but finding out what that is from is the tricky part. It could be cancer, it could be a foreign object or plant or toxin he ate, it could be IBS, it could be... well you get the idea. She said the Barium will coat his system and go right out the other end so the entire digestive tract gets coated, which provides relief but no "cure" for the ailment. He is a plant muncher but all of my house plants are out of reach so I don't know what it could be.
As to his "episodes." Yes, if he is sitting or standing his eyes glaze over sort of and go blank and he just leans over to one side. He would fall down if I didn't grab him and lower him down. One time I was holding him when it happened (which is why he got so worked up and upset) and his head flopped over and it was like holding a rag doll. He does not lose control of his bodily functions thought. But yes, he is vocal. Like that sound when two cats are facing off about to fight. Not a hiss, and not a growl, but that "noise" they make. He does that the entire time, it lasts about 5 seconds, then it's over. Oh, no foaming at the mouth. He always does it in response to me "messing" with him. It's like stress triggers it I guess.
Laying in the closet or under the bed is definitely NOT like him. And then he will get up and wobble around, then lay back down. Then I will be cleaning up the puke or bloody poop a few minutes later and I will think "this is insane, it's time to let him go." But then he gets up, jumps up in my lap and starts purring. Or takes a drink of water on his own, or goes half a day without throwing up, or paws at the front door to go out even though he knows he isn't allowed (typical Andy move he does every day). In those moments I think "well, maybe I am jumping the gun." As every one of us knows, there is that fine line between being responsible and letting them go, and giving up too soon. Then you are left with the "what ifs." WHAT IF he just got into a chemical or chewed on a toxic plant? WHAT IF it's just IBS? So that's why I am still trying. Oh- the vet did seem disappointed that the medicine he is on did not help
since it's an antibiotic and anti-inflammatory. But I feel bad for her because I know she is thinking that she has no clue what is wrong either and without being more invasive she can't find out. I did like her so much. She is very nice and talks really soothing to him. Unlike the guy at my other vet's office who held down a wailing Andy and told him "calm down, it isn't that bad" as he got a blood sample out of his inner back leg! Then proceeded to tell me he doesn't even like cats. Nice. Well Dr. Caldwell was doing a few things to him (abdominal palpitations, looking in his eyes, etc.) and anything he really objected to she just stopped and said it wasn't important enough to upset him. I just think she is much more gentle and if I have to make the call to let him go I would rather she be the one to do it than that guy.
Anyway, sorry to keep going on and on. I will keep y'all posted.
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Remember me? (Barb Moermond)
2. Re: I Think I'm Losing Digby ..... (Gloria B. Lane)
3. Re: I Think I'm Losing Digby ..... (Barb Moermond)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 20:54:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barb Moermond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Remember me?
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Jamie,
There are still a few of us old-timers around and every so often I've thought about you and wondered how you and your family were doing. I'm so sorry you had to come back with bad news. From what you say about what's going on with Andy, I would think some kind of lymphoma or other damage in his upper digestive tract. Tarry looking stool means there is a lot of blood in the system from early on in the digestive process. Is it possible for him to have eaten something that could have wounded him internally and because of his suppressed immune system never healed?? Either way, it sounds like it's very uncomfortable for him to eat - if only because he knows he'll barf it up, or it'll end up with an icky bowel movement. And whatever is wrong inside has probably messed with his appetite so he doesn't want to eat anyway.
Especially with the snapping back to "reality", those do sound like seizures - pretty similar to what Ninja'd had actually. Does he lose control of his bodily functions during the episodes? Does he vocalize? Foam at the mouth? If he's sitting or standing, does he just kind of tip over? How frequently do they happen? Can you tell if there's a specific trigger? Ninja had been on pred to control her seizures and we could not taper the dose and ended up adding in phenobarbital. What dose of pred is he on? I'm wondering if it's neural damage as opposed to a tumor.
When you look in his eyes, do you see "Andy" there? Is his personality still the same, with understandable behavior changes due to illness? That's the main thing I used with Ninja - whatever made her "HER" just wasn't there any more - SHE came back the morning the vet came over and we said goodbye, had a wonderful little snuggle and chat, but she'd been ready for a couple days and was just waiting.
I think more comprehensive blood work would be helpful, but not worth it if he stresses out like that. Try to simply make him comfortable, baby food or whatever and water available if he wants them, but leave him alone for a day or so and look in his eyes again. I'm sorry to say it, but it sounds like he's ready.
Please keep us posted and remember you're not alone.
Barb and Smoky and Bandit (oh yeah, and Daddy)
Jamie Laws <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
Hi there. I was reading the archives and saw some familiar names so maybe some of you remember me. I was subscribed under my old email so "andyandmouse" may sound more familiar. Anyway, my name is Jamie and my Felv positive boy is Andy. I was an active member of the List (and used to administer the emergency fund) from about 1999 to maybe 2003 so I have been gone a while. As is normally the case, it is bad news that brings me back. As a refresher, Andy tested positive on Elisa in May 1999 and IFA in April 2000. Other than a quickly treated bout of Hemobartinella in the summer of 1999, he has been symptom free. Until recently.
So, I noticed that he was getting gradually thinner about 6 months ago. He was still eating fine and his "potty habits" were normal so I didn't worry too much. But then he started throwing up that foamy white stuff every single day. Never food, just foam. So the vet had me feed him a little bit of canned food (to guarantee he'd eat) first thing in the morning and in the evening. The thought was maybe it was stomach acid. Well it didn't help. Then he started throwing up a little bit of food. Not eating a bunch, then throwing it all back up, but he would vomit up SOME of what he ate a few hours later. So back to the vet we went- about 6 weeks ago. This time it was a new vet at the clinic (bought out the practice- long story!). So he was pretty much telling me it was cancer. Blood work (CBC only) and x-rays (abdominal and chest) showed nothing at all. NOTHING. So the woman vet who was there when I picked him up acted like that was a GOOD sign but the man vet told me on the
phone it was a BAD sign b/c it didn't rule IN anything else. And of course lymphoma is not 100% detectable without biopsy. At this point, I really don't think Andy is strong enough to be sedated to even HAVE a biopsy! But she put him on Prednisone, which I had my serious doubts about, but tried it. It did seem to help him out, but of course that's what Pred does. Then you pay the piper so to speak for that quick fix. That brings us to right now. He was looking worse and worse so I took him to an entirely new vet practice last Tuesday. She did not want to do more x-rays or blood work on him right now b/c he does need sedation to draw blood and she was afraid to even use the gas on him right now. To put it in perspective, Andy is normally about 12-14 pounds. He is a big cat anyway. On Tuesday he weighed just over 7 pounds. He is a rack of bones. Ok, I had been giving him baby food at night to fatten him up but ran out on Sunday night. At that time he DID eat on his own.
I can't recall actually witnessing him eat after that point. But Tuesday evening he would not eat and would not drink water. This is a cat who sits by my dogs and begs while I cook. My other 2 don't do that. And he eats ANYTHING so it's a big deal to me that he won't eat. He acted interested, like sniffing and stuff, but would not eat. I tried warming up tuna fish, baby food, A/D, milk, kitten replacement milk, cream sauce from dinner the night before. You name it. NADA. So I syringe fed him baby food and water. That did stay down but he didn't put up much of a fight which is odd. She has him on Metronidazole in the morning and Barium at night. I just syringe that down him to coat his stomach. I like her because she said "there is no medical reason why that should help, but sometimes it does so we'll try it." I mean I like that b/c she is willing to try things that are off the beaten path. We discussed perhaps trying Immunoregulin but she wanted to do one thing at a
time. But it's been 5 days and he is no different. He just sits in the closet or under the bed doing that shallow breathing. And he growls at me when I walk in the room now b/c he knows I am going to force feed him or medicate him and that KILLS me. On top of that, I think he is having seizures. When he gets real worked up he does this throaty growl and just goes limp. His head flops down and his jaw is clamped shut and all of his limbs go right out in front of him totally stiff. Then he sort of snaps out of it and looks around confused. So I don't know what's up with that. I just keep waiting for a sign to let him go. I told my husband today that if it were someone else's cat I would be telling them to put it out of it's misery, but I can't be objective here. I keep thinking I can try just one more thing. She said the Pred probably upset the bacteria in his tummy so I am giving him acidopholus. I also gave him some Pepcid at the vet's instruction. Oh, guess I forgot
to mention the tar-like diarrhea and that as of Friday he pukes up anything I syringe him, except water. So I have him ONE dropper of the cat milk replacement stuff, waited a little bit, and give him one more. So far that has stayed down. So I don't know if it's the baby food being too rich or just that I gave him too much at once. But again, Tuesday-Friday morning he kept down 5 syringes in the morning and another 5 at night. Now he can't.
Any thoughts here? Do I need to just let him go? At this point I cannot afford to have giant vet bills, but I want to do all I can for him. I just don't see spending thousands of dollars on a 7 year old cat who has been Felv positive for at least 6 years. And I don't see making him spend days at the vet or making tons of trips back and forth. That is more of a concern than the money. If these are his final days I don't want them to be spent at the vet or even at home being poked, prodded and forced to eat. I have said all along I will not let that cat suffer when this day came. Now look at me. I am allowing him to sit in a closet feeling God knows what kind of pain, probably eaten up with cancer that no one can detect, and starving himself to death.
Woo hoo. Welcome back Jamie aka "Debbie Downer" from SNL! Sorry guys- I am just feeling very angry right now so I am being sarcastic and bitter. This sucks. Thanks for listening though. I have always felt so supported here and I hope it's still the same vibe- and I'm sure it is. I hope all of your babies are doing well. I am almost scared to go through archives because I am afraid of what I will find there.
Jamie
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 22:56:27 -0500
From: "Gloria B. Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I Think I'm Losing Digby .....
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Hi Marlene -
I am so sorry to hear your situation with Digby. I know what you
mean. With my kitties, there's a point at which I find I'm not comfortable
putting stress on them with "forcing" food, meds, on them. With my
Calawalla, I regret taking her to the emergency vet - he did all these
unnecessary tests - wish I'd just kept her home, given her fluids
occasionally, and let her lie down and be peaceful.
Someone else may know - but seems like Doxy may be more irritating to the
stomach than some of the other antibiotics. Also, you might try chicken or
turkey baby food, and see if Digby accepts that.
Only suggestions, I know how much you care and hope you find the right
things to do - and many good suggestions from those on this list.
Best of luck,
Gloria
At 09:59 PM 5/21/2005, you wrote:
>Hi Group,
>
> Can't think too clearly at the moment, but I think we're going to
> lose Digby. Having to syringe feed him now and give Doxycycline. Blood
> work (according to the vet lab) seems to be indicating something going on
> in the bone marrow, may/may not be Hemobart. They also say there's a
> secondary infection but no indication as to where/what it is (at this
> point). Our vet clinic ran a urine sample today but it was O.K., so not
> a kidney/bladder infection. We've been told it could be anything from an
> abscess somewhere to a tumour, to I really can't remember what all. Vet
> today (not his regular vet) said that if he won't eat, they could put a
> feeding tube in his mouth (doesn't require anesthetic) and get food
> in. We're trying our very best to syringe feed him A/D, but it sometimes
> upsets me to see him stressed when I do it. Also syringing some water
> into him. He can still get around (to litter box), but other than that,
> he just prefers to be by himself (in his "safe place"). My husband and I
> find ourselves thinking - are we doing the right/best thing for him
> already at this point? When is enough enough, and will we know it? We
> knew when enough was enough last year with our "Casper" (CRF), but FelV
> is a whole new thing for us, and I guess we're already beating ourselves
> up over it wondering if we missed something, weren't observant enough, or
> what? Sorry to "babble" but this is already starting to take a toll on
> my husband and I. Just needed to talk about it.
>
>Marlene
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 21:00:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barb Moermond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I Think I'm Losing Digby .....
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Marlene,
When Digby is in his safe place, is he sleeping or just sitting there, not really there? Is he drinking anything on his own? One thing for sure, YOU need a good night's sleep. As much as you can anyway, so you can think more clearly. If you read what I wrote to Jamie, it applies here too; when you look in his eyes, is DIGBY still there? Is his personality still there?
Keep us posted and remember you are NOT alone!
Marlene Chornie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
Hi Group,
Can't think too clearly at the moment, but I think we're going to lose Digby. Having to syringe feed him now and give Doxycycline. Blood work (according to the vet lab) seems to be indicating something going on in the bone marrow, may/may not be Hemobart. They also say there's a secondary infection but no indication as to where/what it is (at this point). Our vet clinic ran a urine sample today but it was O.K., so not a kidney/bladder infection. We've been told it could be anything from an abscess somewhere to a tumour, to I really can't remember what all. Vet today (not his regular vet) said that if he won't eat, they could put a feeding tube in his mouth (doesn't require anesthetic) and get food in. We're trying our very best to syringe feed him A/D, but it sometimes upsets me to see him stressed when I do it. Also syringing some water into him. He can still get around (to litter box), but other than that, he just prefers to be by himself (in his "safe place"). My
husband and I find ourselves thinking - are we doing the right/best thing for him already at this point? When is enough enough, and will we know it? We knew when enough was enough last year with our "Casper" (CRF), but FelV is a whole new thing for us, and I guess we're already beating ourselves up over it wondering if we missed something, weren't observant enough, or what? Sorry to "babble" but this is already starting to take a toll on my husband and I. Just needed to talk about it.
Marlene
Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito
"My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile."
- Anonymous
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