Wow, Laura---that is high-grade info!! Thank you so much--I'm going to study this closely at home tonight. I believe you are what you eat--by and large. So I'm keen to know as much as possible about what's best out there for the kitties (realistically, home-made just ain't going to happen in my home any time soon). By the way, d'you mind if I pass your info on to others?
>>>>My vet calls him "the miracle cat" but then again, my vet does not follow nutrition as a protocol for healing and wellness either. I think she, like most vets, get their nutritional knowledge from Hills Science Diet or similar sources and it's only a few hours of training at best.<<<< I think you are absolutely right in this. I bet your info would be largely news to my vet! I'm going to work on getting him more clued into nutrition. Thanks to this wonderful group, I discovered on Saturday that he's applied for Virbagen Omega for another client's FeLV cat. So he's open to learning from the troops in the trenches. Really appreciate it--thanks so much again! Kerry PS Are you Hideyo's friend, by the way, Laura? She said she was going to ask a friend who worked in the distribution business for natural pet food.... -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Summer Silvae Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:33 PM To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Royal Canin vs Wellness opinion Hi there, First and most importantly, Wellness and Innova's Evo are going to have *human grade ingredients*. This is key because if it's deemed unfit for human consumption and processed as *pet grade material*, it probably consists of diseased (for example: tumorous masses or cancerous material) and disabled meat sources or rendered meat sources, which may have been purchased at a rendering plant (the same ones that process bodies of euthanized dogs and cats unfortunately). Heh. It is also beneficial for grains to be human-grade as well. Corn, other grains and foods like peanut butter (for example) that are processed for human consumption are batch tested for a carcinogenic (cancer-causing) mold called aflatoxin. The batches are also tested for high amounts of pestiside residues and other unsavory chemicals that make their way into our food sources. Pet grade grains are NOT tested for any of this things, unfortunately. This list of ingredients for Royal Canin does *not* appear to list animal or meat by-products which is a big plus. By-products can consist of tongue, beaks, feathers, intestines, lungs, grizzle, bone and other materials. While animals eat a certain amount of by-products in their natural environments, one's diet should not primarily consist of a by-product simply because it's an inferior source of protein. Just FYI. Any kind of meal is going to be a lesser quality source of protein. Protein *quality* is extremely important with any type of food, be it animal or human. Meal is superior to by-product by far, however, the quality of the protein will depend on the type and amount of chicken meat in the mixture, as well as the amount of bone and connective tissue processed with the meat. Chicken meal is the number one ingredient in Royal Canin. I believe brewer's rice is the part of the rice that is left over after it has been used in a distillery for brewing alcoholic beverages. I doubt it has much nutritonal value. It's listed as the second ingredient in Royal Canin so there's a lot of it to deal with in there. Corn is an extremely common allergen in animal foods. It's difficult to digest though some sources say cats can digest it better than humans and dogs. It's not a complete source of amino acids. It has to be combined with other food sources to be a complete protein. After the starch and germ have been removed from corn and the bran has been separated, the leftovers go through a wet milling process to make corn syrup or starch. The corn gluten meal is what is left over after that process. Simply not very nutritous and RC lists it as the third ingredient. My advice would be to save the corn gluten meal for organic gardening. It makes for good weed control hehe. I don't know enough about pea fiber to make a case for or against it. It's not in any of the foods I use though. Beet pulp is the dried residue from sugar beets which has been cleaned and extracted in the process of manufacturing sugar. I have mixed feelings on beet pulp. Some tout it as a high quality fiber source, others say it's a filler, a sugar source, etc. I tend to lean towards the latter and think it has no place in animal food. I have no idea what's in the "chicken flavor". Powdered cellulose is "purified, mechanically disintegrated cellulose prepared by processing alpha cellulose obtained as a pulp from fibrous plant material. In other words, sawdust." (Foods Pets Die For by Ann Martin). If we're looking for rich fiber sources, I would think whole fruits and vegetables would be the intuitive answer vs powdered cellulose, beet pulp or pea fiber. I believe the vitamin and mineral sources in Wellness to be more bioavailable, or useable, by their body systems and Wellness *does* contain beneficial baterial or probiotics (like Lactobacillus Acidophilus) which I believe everyone needs to promote intestinal health and immunity. Regardless of the comparisions listed here, neither meat source is organic, or without antibiotics and added hormones. Antibiotics are routinely and mass-fed to slaughterhouse animals as an attempt to keep disease in check. Antibiotics, in humans and animals, do not discriminate against friendly and unfriendly bacteria in the body. It tends to wipe out all colonies. Everyone needs beneficial bacteria to ward off pesky things like Candida Albicans, which occurs naturally in the body but kept uncheck can multiply rapidly. A systemic candida infection can cause severe intestinal and immune disfunction. I don't think the amount added to Wellness is certainly going to combat long-term antibiotic use or battle a yeast infection but it can't hurt to have it there, eh? ;) Wellness is baked which is touted as a nutrient preserver. Wellness does have a lot of fish sources, which can contain high levels of heavy metals such as mecury. However it's human grade, so it could be tested for heavy metals....might want to check with Old Mother Hubbard, the manufactor, to be sure. Any human-grade, natural (no common allergens like corn, wheat or soy, no fillers like corn gluten mea or beet pulp, no artifical colors or preservatives like ethoxyquin or BHA, and real meat sources with no by-product) dog or cat food is going to be *more nutritious*, hence one is feeding less cups/meal/ day and the stool produced is going to be well-formed, solid and well, less of it to clean up. Although, Royal Canin certainly looks a lot better than other brands at Petsmart or the grocery store. It definitely could be much worse....like Old Yeller, Mighty Dog or Friskies :P Just quickly, Evo is a high protein, low carbohydrate diet for animals. Think Atkins or South Beach Diet for animals because they do favor one another. People say it's very similar to how animals would eat in their natural environment. The ingredients are human-grade of course, not genetically modified-which is AWESOME and it looks decent to me. However, I feel high protein kibble should be utilized in cases with active, healthy animals. I also feel low carb suit cats more than humans or dogs. There is a lot of controversy with high protein/low carb....my opinion is: the higher the protein, the potential for uric acid build up increases. Increased levels of uric acid over extended periods of time *can* be detrimental to kidney function. So in senior animals, overweight animals and animals predisposed to kidney issues like FLUTD, diabetes or renal failure, it's probably a no-go. I have seen animals go nuts over the taste and there are tons doing well on it though. In my opinion, Wellness is the winner here but an organic food like Karma for dogs (if one is going the kibble route), an organic home-cooked diet or an organic raw diet would probably be more beneficial and appropriate. Again, just my opinion, take it for what it's worth. I do feral cat rescue and have 11 cats and 2 dogs. I feed a variety of Wellness, Karma and Innova at the moment, though if I have the funds and time, I would go organic home-prepared in a heartbeat. Mr Gordy, my FIV *and* FELV + rescue kitty has been on Innova for a year now (and other supplements) and he's doing extremely well despite his condition. My vet calls him "the miracle cat" but then again, my vet does not follow nutrition as a protocol for healing and wellness either. I think she, like most vets, get their nutritional knowledge from Hills Science Diet or similar sources and it's only a few hours of training at best. It all boils down to our fur babies anyhow. We do what we think is right for the amount of precious time we have together on this Earth and no less. So, do some more research and follow your instincts on this decision. Best of luck to you! Blessed Be, Laura >Hi all >Does anyone have any opinion on the quality of Royal Canin dry cat food >v. eg Wellness (or for that matter the new Evo)? My vet was extolling >its and the company's virtues when I saw him recently and gave me a >gratis 6lb bag for my FeLV kitties. (The dry they eat just now is >Wellness and all my cats love it so much, and it seems to be doing them >good, I'm almost loathe to try them on something else. But I could use a >6lb free bag.) If you guys think Royal Canin quality is as good as >Wellness I will mix it in. If not, I'll pass it on to a shelter. > >Atually I just went on the web and here are the listed ingreds for >both. Wellness looks superior. > >As an aside, my vet was very impressed by the following Royal Canin R&D. >Am I being just too cynical in thinking it's "toys for the boys" >syndrome? Anyway, if anyone has any comments I'd love to hear them. I'm >continually trying to educate myself on kitty nutrition. Thanks! Kerry > >Finding the Perfect Kibble > >Research Indicates: The size, shape and power of a cat's jaw depend on >its age, breed and state of health. > >Nutritional Breakthroughs: Scientific and mechanical studies of kibble >texture and elasticity led to the use of a Texturometer. This >innovation determines kibble size, shape and thickness as well as >elasticity and degree of penetration required for breakage. All >contribute to producing the perfect kibble for each cat. > > >Ingredients listed for Royal Canin dry: >Chicken meal, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken, corn, chicken fat >(preserved with mixed tocopherols), pea fiber, beet pulp, chicken >flavor, powdered cellulose, fish oil, dried egg products, brewers yeast, >sodium bisulfate, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, choline >chloride, DL-methionine, taurine, natural antioxidant, iron proteinate, >vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, zinc >oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese oxide, calcium >pantothenate, manganese proteinate, niacin supplement, copper sulfate, >riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, >copper proteinate, calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite, >vitamin B12 supplement. > >Guaranteed Analysis for Royal Canin dry: > >Crude Protein Not less than 32% >Crude Fat Not less than 13% >Crude Fiber Not more than 4% > >Moisture Not more than 10% >Magnesium Not more than 0.095% >Taurine Not less than 0.15% >Omega 6* Not less than 1.9% >Omega 3* Not less than 0.43% >Calories (kcal/cup) 316 > >Ingredents listed for Wellness dry: >Salmon, Deboned Turkey, Herring Meal, Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fishmeal, >Ground Whole Oats, Brown Rice, Dried Whole Eggs, Dried Peas, Canola Oil >(Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Oil, Chicken Liver, >Flaxseed, Cranberries, Blueberries, Taurine, Garlic, Alfalfa Leaf, Dried >Kelp, Whole Ground Apples, Whole Ground Sweet Potatoes, Steamed >Zucchini, Yucca Schidigera, Chicory Extract, Beta Carotene, >Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, >Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc >Proteinate (a chelated source of Zinc), Vitamin E supplement, Zinc >Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate (a chelated source of Iron), >Manganese Proteinate (a chelated source of Manganese), Calcium >Proteinate (a chelated source of Calcium), Niacin Supplement, Sodium >Selenite, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Cobalt Proteinate (a chelated >source of Cobalt), Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Riboflavin >Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Copper Proteinate (a chelated source of >Copper), Thiamin Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, >Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite >Complex (Source of Vitamin K activity). > >Guaranteed Analysis for Wellness dry: > Crude Protein Not Less Than 33.0% > Crude Fat Not Less Than 19.0% > Crude Fiber Not More Than 5.0% > Moisture Not More Than 10.0% > Ash Not More Than 6.0% > Magnesium Not More Than 0.10% > Taurine Not Less Than 0.18% > Omega-6 (Linoleic Acid) Not Less Than 3.5% > Omega-3 (Linolenic Acid) Not Less Than 1.1%* >* Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Cat Food Nutrient >Profile > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! 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