Carolyn, you never really know with cats, but MAYBE some of Lil Girl's Queen Bee attitude would dissipate once she got inside because in THAT hierarchy she's the new girl in town. Then again, maybe not, but it does happen. Also, if you take the time to go through the socializing protocols from step one -- caging, food association, spending time, etc., and introduce the others to her while she's still in the (mutual) safety of her cage, maybe she will learn to coexist. I only have the experience of our former feral Fred, but in her case, there was never a cage but a room to herself, for months and months, with my housemate and I coming in nightly with food and conversation (we read her the 100 Best Fantasy and Science Fiction Stories ;-)). Coincidentally, the room has a gaping hole where the doorknob should be, so she could easily hear the sounds of the house, and there was a large gap at the bottom of the door where she would play patty-paw with the others long before they met face to face. When we finally opened the door to them, it was so completely a non-event, most of them just gave her butt a little sniff and then went over to check that her food wasn't any better than theirs. I dunno, I think her barging in and making herself at home so soon after Monkee died was, well, kind of a sign, don't you, really? Diane R.
________________________________ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 2:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Question about outdoor cat Well, that is how my Monkee eventually became. He was living outside, but likely belonged to someone before (he was neutered). But Lil Girl is different because she's not afraid of even ONE thing! So she definitely doesn't have that timid, scared feral thing going on. Monkee was afraid of people and especially men for a long time. And actually, if she was more afraid, my mom and I might be more confident about me taking her b/c we know how to manage that. But as she is, her personality...we fear she might just continue to run roughshod over everything and everyone if we take her in!!! She looks at my foster kitties with utter distain from the front door! I swear, she glares at them and narrows her eyes like they are just stupid little lunatics (which, they are!). But I don't want her terrorizing my mom's cat and my sweet foster cat Izzee- who's become such a wonderful cat since I took the kittens in. I really don't want to do anything that would "offend" Izzee or upset her! After Monkee died and I had no cats for about a week, Lil Girl came busting into my house and on my front, screened porch! Just marching around investigating like she owned the place. She clearly has no fear and she just has that personality- you can just tell-- of "I'm going to do what I want to do when I want to do it!" I've joked to my mom that maybe I will just scoop her up and put her in my mom's backyard- at least temporarily! But my mom fears she will make the "incredible journey" back to her neighborhood/colony instinctively....? We feel like we just don't know anything about colony/outdoor cats like her and don't feel confident in our abilities to make a decision I guess? -Caroline ________________________________ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Question about outdoor cat Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:31:45 -0400 TAKE HER! I was feeding my Romeo for 2 years before I brought him inside. I did so only because the temperature was going to below zero and the creeps whose house he lived under boarded up his access so he had no shelter. It took a few weeks of him in a large kennel in my bedroom propped up on some boxes. Initially, I put his box and his food dish in there & covered all but two sides with a sheet. Then I started leaving the door to the kennel open and putting his food on the floor just below. Then I brought him to the bathroom around the corner in the kennel to show him where I was moving the litter box to. He started eating/going to the box only when nobody was in the room or at night when he thought I was asleep. But sure enough, one day he went out while I was in the room on my computer and jumped on the bed he'd been eying! Sure enough, that did it. Once he found the creature comforts there was no turning back! He rarely sits at the window or tries to go out-sort of looks at the other guys like they're nuts for wanting to go out! He is the absolutely most affectionate cat I've ever had. BUT, the one thing I still can't do is actually pick him up. He'll sit on my lap (or on my chest when I try to sleep!) but squirms out real fast if I try to pick him up. Vet visits & crating are real tough so I have to keep that to an absolute miminum Sooo, this little one has already staked you out as hers! I say take her; keep her in a big wire cage with some increasing freedoms and watch her become a big mush! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:17 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: OT: Question about outdoor cat This is my final question I promise. But it's been looming over my head for a long time now and it's really distressing me. I know I have told you all that my street has neighborhood 24/7 outdoor cats that technically belong to a lady a few houses up from me. But all the neighbors kind of look after them and some feed/keep water out. The lady who brought them to the street "rescued" them from her sister- whom she said wasn't taking care of them- the sister had not spayed/neutered. She got connected with one of the local agencies and had them all fixed for a discount (she is low income). She already has five indoor cats so these cats became outdoor cats. Almost all of them have clipped ears (except one) that show they have been fixed. Some of them started out as indoor/outdoor and then I guess found they liked being like colony cats better so they pretty much stay out year round. She has a front porch where she has boxes set up for them in the winter, etc. They are all male, except for one. I started feeding them too myself when I moved to the street over a year ago because I didn't know the situation- were they homeless, etc.? I finally got the whole story. There is one, a little girl who I call, "Lil Girl" who pretty much has re-transplanted herself to my property. I treated her for tapeworms and I have been giving her Advantage thru the summer. I was worried about her being so small, even tho she's about 5 yo, so I kept feeding her quality food to beef her up, even after determining her sort-of home situation. But now she is a permanent resident pretty much at my front door. She is there every morning waiting for me and in the evening. It so sad because I do not own my house and my landlord needs his house back and I am moving the weekend after next. I don't know what to do? The other outdoor cats who I feed are just occasional visitors-- they will be fine without me and I will have a talk with all the neighbors about calling me if something happens and I was going to leave a couple bags of expensive, quality food with the lady up the street to feed them, etc. I know I will stop by a lot to check on them because I am very tied to the neighborhood by exercise classes I attend, etc. But I am really upset about the Lil Girl. I can't tell if she just hangs out with me and at my house JUST BECAUSE I feed her and she likes my food better or because she likes me? I worry about the effect of my leaving on her? She'll be waiting for me the next morning and I won't show? My landlord is allergic to cats and I doubt he will be feeding them (I have to have a talk with him about at least being nice to them tho and letting him know they will be at the door for a while until they "figure it out." He's young and a hippy/nature person, so he will be cool about it, he just won't be the cat-person that I was). But everytime I think about Lil Girl, I just want to cry. She's beautiful, but she's a top banana- she's runs roughshod over the much larger outdoor boy cats- three and 4 times her size! It's already going to be crazy enough at my mom's house trying to integrate my declawed Izzee with my mom's hissing, scratching Tally, my mom's new Humane Society dog who doesn't like Tally/cats and is still trying to kill Tally (they are working on it) and then my three crated foster kitties! Ironically, I think the foster kitties will have the smoothest transition! They don't ask for much! My mom and I have gone round and round about what to do about Lil Girl b/c my mom likes her too and worries about her. Before I got the foster kittens, I thought about taking her with me. I'm pretty sure the lady up the street would let me have her b/c that would be one less mouth....but I don't know if Lil Girl could become a house cat? Would she be happy, or is there some colony-cat psychology that I would be interfering with? I fear she would kill Izzee and Tally given the chance-- or at least beat them up. Lil Girl is not feral tho- I can pick her up and hold her- tho it's not her fave thing. She seems to just "perfer" to be outside, so it's like she's somewhere in between, so she presents such a problem for me!? I just don't know what to do? I need advice! Reassurance? -Caroline ________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. 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