On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 11:01:49AM +0200, Kristian Ølgaard wrote:
>
>
>
> On 10 June 2014 10:44, Anders Logg <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>     On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 10:09:44AM +0200, Martin Sandve Alnæs wrote:
>     > To clarify, Kristian talks about the jump(f,n) version:
>     >
>     > jump(scalar,n) is vector-valued
>     > jump(vector,n) is scalar
>     >
>     > while I mixed up with the jump(f) version:
>     >
>     > jump(scalar) is scalar
>     > jump(vector) is vector-valued
>     >
>     > The jump(f) version gives the difference of the full value, while
>     > the jump(f,n) version gives the difference in normal component.
>
>     I looked through the Unified DG paper that Kristian pointed to but
>     couldn't see any examples of vector-valued equations.
>
> Section 3.1, text below eqn. 3.2 definitions of avg and jump for functions 'q'
> and '\phi'.

Yes I noticed the definition of the jump, but it is not applied to the
case where u is a vector (so that grad(u) is a matrix).

--
Anders


>     I also don't see the point in defining jump(v, n) for vector valued u
>     as in the paper. If the result of jump(v, n) is a scalar quantity,
>     there is no way to combine the normal n with the thing it should
>     naturally be paired with, namely the flux (or grad(u)). It only works
>     out in the special case of scalar elements.
>
>     But perhaps adding tensor_jump() is the best solution since that paper
>     is the standard reference for DG methods.
>
>     (I'll ask Douglas Arnold about this, if he has not seen this
>     already. Maybe I am missing something obvious.)
>
>     > However, if I didn't mess up some signs I think you can write your term
>     like
>     >
>     > 0.5*dot(jump(Dn(u)), jump(v))
>     >
>     > which seems much more intuitive to me (although I'm not that into DG
>     scheme
>     > terminology).
>
>     Yes, that looks correct but I don't think it is intuitive since it
>     does not involve the avg() operator which is naturally paired with the
>     jump() operator in most DG formulations.
>
>
>
>     > On 10 June 2014 09:05, Kristian Ølgaard <[email protected]> wrote:
>     >
>     >
>     >     On 9 June 2014 20:58, Martin Sandve Alnæs <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
>     >
>     >
>     >         I object to changing definitions based on that it would work out
>     nicely
>     >         for one particular equation. The current definition yields a
>     scalar
>     >         jump for both scalar and vector valued quantities, and the
>     definition
>     >         was chosen for a reason. I'm pretty sure it's in use. Adding a
>     >         tensor_jump on the other hand wouldn't break any older programs.
>     >
>     >         Maybe Kristian has an opinion here, cc to get his attention.
>     >
>     >
>     >     I follow the list, but thanks anyway.
>     >
>     >     The current implementation of the jump() operator follows the
>     definition
>     >     often used in papers (e.g. UNIFIED ANALYSIS OF DISCONTINUOUS 
> GALERKIN
>     >     METHODS
>     >     FOR ELLIPTIC PROBLEMS, arnold et al. http://epubs.siam.org/doi/abs/
>     10.1137/
>     >     S0036142901384162)
>     >
>     >     where the jump of scalar valued function result in a vector, and the
>     jump
>     >     of a vector valued function result in a scalar.
>     >
>     >     Adding the tensor_jump() function seems like a good solution in this
>     case
>     >     as I don't see a simple way of overloading the current jump()
>     function to
>     >     return the tensor jump.
>     >
>     >     Kristian
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >         Martin
>     >
>     >         9. juni 2014 20:16 skrev "Anders Logg" <[email protected]>
>     følgende:
>     >
>     >
>     >             On Mon, Jun 09, 2014 at 11:30:09AM +0200, Jan Blechta wrote:
>     >             > On Mon, 9 Jun 2014 11:10:12 +0200
>     >             > Anders Logg <[email protected]> wrote:
>     >             >
>     >             > > For vector elements, the jump() operator in UFL is
>     defined as
>     >             follows:
>     >             > >
>     >             > >   dot(v('+'), n('+')) + dot(v('-'), n('-'))
>     >             > >
>     >             > > I'd like to argue that it should instead be implemented
>     like
>     >             so:
>     >             > >
>     >             > >   outer(v('+'), n('+')) + outer(v('-'), n('-'))
>     >             >
>     >             > This inconsistency has been already encountered by users
>     >             > http://fenicsproject.org/qa/359/
>     >             discontinuous-galerkin-jump-operators
>     >
>     >             Interesting! I hadn't noticed.
>     >
>     >             Are there any objections to changing this definition in UFL?
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>
>
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