Hi On Wed, Jun 18, 2025 at 05:50:10PM +0200, Tomas Härdin wrote: > ons 2025-06-18 klockan 05:55 +0200 skrev Michael Niedermayer: > > What you suggest or hint toward to me, in plain english sounds like, > > drop the ffmpeg command line tool because it would otherwise need to > > have NLE support. > > I am not suggesting that. As many others have been pointing out > recently, we don't have to support literally every use case. We can say > that we will transcode essence and expose/map relevant metadata/side > data. We can say that it is up to users to implement the relevant > business logic.
That could be an intermediate step as long as no supported files are "lost"
> melt again serves as a useful example.
> Another way
> could be writing a Python program that parses edit list data supplied
> by ffprobe, building an ffmpeg command line that it then executes to
> effect the desired rendering
requiring the user to write a Python scrpt to interact with ffmpeg
does not sound desirable or realistic
>
>
> > If we dont implement full edit list support, then we should not
> > pretend
> > 1. ffmpeg even supports mov or mp4 (and thats the end of ffmpeg.)
>
> FFmpeg does not support Flash or 3D meshes in mov files either. Despite
> this, the world has not ended
Ive never seen 3D meshes used in real world cases.
Flash could have been supported, _IF_ someone wrote a clean implementation
and submited it. Noone did.
edit lists are used in reality, and we have a messy half-implementation
(and we agree thats not good)
[...]
>
> > also another example for "apply" is a player, which also needs to
> > apply
> > the edit lists to be able to present a file to a human
> > thats ffplay but also many other players that use libavcodec &
> > format
>
> Yes, such as melt. Which already exists and does all the stuff
> necessary for NLE work, so there's no need for us to reimplement it
You know my point is so dumb and boring
* If you can apply an edit list then you can apply any list of edits
* If you cant apply an edit list then you cant play mov/mp4 reliably
You could also see it with some art ;)
Playing MOV/MP4
--edit list -->
Demuxer FFmpeg --------> Human or output file
--packets->-Decoder->
<--seek commands--
basic NLE:
<--edit list -- Human
Demuxer FFmpeg ----------> output file
--packets->-Decoder->
<--seek commands--
You can see its the same, only the source of the edit list changes
If we support edit lists (without hacks) then the user can always edit
the edit list and that means he has basic NLE
I dont see how you can escape this fact
a user interface to allow him to cleanly set the edit list (via json or
whetever)
is not where we seem to disagree.
>
>
> > My way is forward,
> > a streaming server (IF there are people who want to work on it),
> > NLE (IF there are people who want to work on it)
> > anything else multimedia related (IF there are people who want to
> > work on it)
>
> You should know by now that a significant fraction of developers
> disagree with the kind of scope creep this implies
I dont think anyone except you disagrees we should support mov/mp4
with edit lists.
I ask for nothing beyond. Its just that THIS imples basic NLE support
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
"You are 36 times more likely to die in a bathtub than at the hands of a
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attack." -- Thoughty2
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