Why not just 'CONCERT HALL MUSIC'? Norman
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:01:16 -0600 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Finale Digest, Vol 6, Issue 12 > > Send Finale mailing list submissions to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Finale digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Nonpop? (Dennis Bathory-Kitsz) > 2. None (Linda Worsley) > 3. Re: Nonpop? (Randolph Peters) > 4. Re: Nonpop? (David H. Bailey) > 5. Re: Repeating rhythms (Ole Buck) > 6. Re: Nonpop? (Mr. Liudas Motekaitis) > 7. Re: Nonpop? (Dennis Bathory-Kitsz) > 8. Re: Nonpop? (Mr. Liudas Motekaitis) > 9. Re: Nonpop? (Randolph Peters) > 10. Finale pro needed (Herman S. Gersten) > 11. Re: Repeating rhythms (Mark D Lew) > 12. Re: Stem direction (Mark D Lew) > 13. Re: Repeating rhythms (Michael Cook) > 14. Re: Repeating rhythms (Johannes Gebauer) > 15. Re: Repeating rhythms (Hans Swinnen) > 16. Re: Repeating rhythms (Mark D Lew) > 17. Re: Repeating rhythms (Johannes Gebauer) > 18. Re: Nonpop? (Dennis Bathory-Kitsz) > 19. Re: Reducing the size of time signatures, clefs, > accidentals? > 20. Re: Stem direction (d. collins) > 21. Re: Reducing the size of time signatures, clefs, > accidentals? (Richard Huggins) > 22. Re: Stem direction (Johannes Gebauer) > 23. Re: Reducing the size of time signatures, clefs, > accidentals? (Michael Cook) > 24. Re: Reducing the size of time signatures, clefs, > accidentals? (David H. Bailey) > 25. Re: Stem direction (David H. Bailey) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:04:22 -0500 > From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Nonpop? > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: list > Message: 1 > > At 09:17 AM 1/11/04 -0600, Randolph Peters wrote: >> "Nonpop" goes a certain distance, but it ultimately fails as >> nomenclature because it only says what it is not rather than what it >> is. As a non-insect I believe we can do better! > > But we haven't done so since "classical" began to fail as a useful term > somewhere about 1945. And nonpop rolls *so* nicely off the tongue! > >> P.S. Is "new music" so bad? > > Any music recently written is new music, so it's not helpful to anyone who > doesn't already know it means "new music" = "new nonpop". > > And for those who *do* know, the baggage "new music" carries is huge and > nasty -- there's no term worse, in fact, from a marketing/audience > invitation standpoint because "new music" has caused people to run for the > exits for some 90 years now. > > (Alas, we called our radio show the "New Music Sesquihour" when it began in > 1995, was supposed to run only thirteen 90-minute shows, and we hadn't yet > come up with "nonpop". Now, after 436 additional shows at two hours each, > it's become well known. Also, our 100-plus show IDs done for us by > composers all use it.) > > Dennis > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:28:06 -0500 > From: Linda Worsley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [Finale] None > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: list > Message: 2 > > At 1:04 PM -0500 1/11/04, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: >> ...[clip] Now, after 436 additional shows at two hours each, >> it's become well known. Also, our 100-plus show IDs done for us by >> composers all use it.) > > Well, whatever works. But "non-pop" strikes me as horrible... for a > number of reasons, probably none of them good, since it has succeeded > for you. But here's what struck my earL > > Non pop equals = > > * Not popular (in the sense that people don't generally like it, not > in the commercial sense) > > * If not pop, then what? It's a negative rather than a positive. > > * Cf. above. It's a negative. > > * For a "serious" or "art" or whatever genre, it's a pretty "poppy," hip > term. > > * It's doesn't fall "trippingly on the tongue" in my opinion. It's > abrupt and awkward. > > I don't like either "classical" (confused with the period) or > "serious" (since when was every "classical" piece "serious"... many > are tons o' fun), and "art music" (my reluctant preference) seems > pretentious. There just isn't a good term. "Concert music'? Not > since the Rolling Stones began selling out their concerts. > > There just ISN'T a good tag for this music, and maybe shouldn't be. > Even "Pop" doesn't adequately describe jazz, rock, country, raom > etc,,, which are in turn divided into sub-categories. But Tower > Records asks you if you want blues, country, dance, folk, jazz, rap, > hip-hop, Latin, Rock, Pop, etc.... OR... yup... > "classical". Period. And I don't think anyone is confused. > > Although I am often reduced to calling an entire genre "classical" or > "art music" or whatever, I try to be as specific as Tower is with > what we call "pop" music. If someone asks me what kind of music I > write, I generally say "what kind of music do you want?" because I > have done pretty much everything (I can be bought). But,I often say, > "My favorites kinds of music to write are symphonic works, chamber > music, and music for film or theater.." > > That's too many words, perhaps, but it's pretty clear. > > And radio programs are called "Evening concert" or "Symphonic > Masterpieces" or even "Morning classics" (all of which I've heard on > radio stations across the country) pretty much tell it all. any of > those can be partly or all "new music," partly or all old music, or a > mixture. But no one is going to tune in expecting Eminem or the > Beatles (however "classic" the latter might be). > > Ah... language... dontcha love it? > > Linda Worsley > > http://www.ganymuse.com/ > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:45:32 -0600 > From: Randolph Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Finale] Nonpop? > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: list > Message: 3 > > At 1:04 PM -0500 1/11/04, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: >> And for those who *do* know, the baggage "new music" carries is huge and >> nasty -- there's no term worse, in fact, from a marketing/audience >> invitation standpoint because "new music" has caused people to run for the >> exits for some 90 years now. > > I'm starting to hear the usage of "new music" referring mainly to new > rock, pop, or alternative rock. The idea that it once referred only > to nonpop/avant garde/serious/concert or whatever music is completely > off the radar screen. Going to a classical concert still brings along > a lot of negative associations, but new music just means something > written lately. The trend is not entirely negative. > > More and more people are taking pride in having eclectic tastes. > Their iPods, for example, are filled with not just with music to > listen to, but also a musical DNA of who they are. They want "good > music" and it doesn't matter about the style. Nonpop new music has a > place, albeit a small one, for this kind of listener. > > This still doesn't solve the problem of naming the kind of music we > write. Usually others do that for you for better or worse! > > -Randolph Peters > Composer and Finale user > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:37:54 -0500 > From: "David H. Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Randolph Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Finale list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Nonpop? > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 4 > > > > Randolph Peters wrote: > >> "Nonpop" goes a certain distance, but it ultimately fails as >> nomenclature because it only says what it is not rather than what it is. >> As a non-insect I believe we can do better! >> >> -Randolph Peters >> >> P.S. Is "new music" so bad? > > Some of the stuff I've heard is. But than again, a lot of it isn't so bad. > > But as the name of a genre? Do we include Eminem's latest offerings in > that category? > > Let's face it, we are left with "genre without a name" as the best title > to give "music-which-fits-no-other-genre." > > > -- > David H. Bailey > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:59:52 +0100 > From: Ole Buck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Finale] Repeating rhythms > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 5 > > From: Johannes Gebauer > >> Does anyone know whether there is a simpler way to enter a repeating rhythm >> in Finale, than to enter every note? The rhythm is half a measure long, that >> half measure has the same pitches. Then it repeats, with the pitches >> changing with every repeat. >> >> Is there a way to enter the pitches as half notes, and then copy the rhythm >> onto them? >> > > > I have often used TGTools/Music/Combine Pitches and Rhythm, if I have > some rhytmical values and want to change only the pitches; you have to > use a staff above for the changing pitches. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:01:30 +0200 > From: "Mr. Liudas Motekaitis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Finale list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Nonpop? > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 6 > > I like the german: they have U-Musik and E-Musik. (Unterhaltungsmusik and > Ernste Musik, which would roughly translate to "music for entertainment" and > "serious music"). > > The attractive thing is that they shorten it to U-Musik and E-Musik. That > takes away nearly all the baggage, everyone knows what you're talking about, > and there is not much room left in those coded words to build a huge > argument about how unsuitable the words are. > > Liudas Motekaitis > > > > >> "Nonpop" >> "new music" >>> "Art music" and "serious" >>> "classical" > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:45:32 -0500 > From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Nonpop? > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: list > Message: 7 > > At 11:01 PM 1/11/04 +0200, Mr. Liudas Motekaitis wrote: >> I like the german: they have U-Musik and E-Musik. (Unterhaltungsmusik and >> Ernste Musik, which would roughly translate to "music for entertainment" and >> "serious music"). >> >> The attractive thing is that they shorten it to U-Musik and E-Musik. That >> takes away nearly all the baggage, everyone knows what you're talking about, >> and there is not much room left in those coded words to build a huge >> argument about how unsuitable the words are. > > Quite simple. So... > > Autechre = ? > Duke Ellington = ? > John Williams = ? > DJ Spooky = ? > Antonio Vivaldi = ? > Charles Mingus = ? > Gerhard Stabler = ? > Nino Rota = ? > Wolfgang Mozart = ? > Georges Zamfir = ? > Leonard Bernstein = ? > Cream = ? > David Ware = ? > N.N. und Ahnliche Elemente = ? > Bernard Herrmann = ? > Andrew Lloyd Webber = ? > > :) > > Dennis > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:10:26 +0200 > From: "Mr. Liudas Motekaitis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Nonpop? > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 8 > > Exactly. What I meant was that it seems that the shortening of the words is > a result of such an impossible task as to name and categorize all pieces of > music into white and black. Even more so if you're dealing with a composer > or group that has created a lot of different pieces of music. It's the U and > E I like. The absence of real words. > > Sort of like: "If you want to consider it U that's fine, I'll stick with my > E." There are plenty of letters left for others. > > Something in me tells me that the shortening of those descriptive words is > not merely a means of quickening speech. > > Liudas > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Bathory-Kitsz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 11:45 PM > Subject: Re: [Finale] Nonpop? > > >> At 11:01 PM 1/11/04 +0200, Mr. Liudas Motekaitis wrote: >>> I like the german: they have U-Musik and E-Musik. (Unterhaltungsmusik and >>> Ernste Musik, which would roughly translate to "music for entertainment" > and >>> "serious music"). >>> >>> The attractive thing is that they shorten it to U-Musik and E-Musik. That >>> takes away nearly all the baggage, everyone knows what you're talking > about, >>> and there is not much room left in those coded words to build a huge >>> argument about how unsuitable the words are. >> >> Quite simple. So... >> >> Autechre = ? >> Duke Ellington = ? >> John Williams = ? >> DJ Spooky = ? >> Antonio Vivaldi = ? >> Charles Mingus = ? >> Gerhard Stabler = ? >> Nino Rota = ? >> Wolfgang Mozart = ? >> Georges Zamfir = ? >> Leonard Bernstein = ? >> Cream = ? >> David Ware = ? >> N.N. und Ahnliche Elemente = ? >> Bernard Herrmann = ? >> Andrew Lloyd Webber = ? >> >> :) >> >> Dennis >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Finale mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:06:47 -0600 > From: Randolph Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Finale] Nonpop? > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: list > Message: 9 > > The thing about the term "nonpop" is that despite all evidence > suggesting that it just ain't gonna happen, I don't have a big > problem if my music becomes wildly popular. I suspect that other > composers may feel the same way about their music. > > How about > "nonpop-but-secretly-hoping-for-a-radical-paradigm-shift-in-public-tastes" > music? > > -Randolph Peters > > I always get punch-drunk as my deadlines approach. > Finale content: [Deadlines that are not yet being aided by FinMac 2004.] > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:52:37 -0500 > From: "Herman S. Gersten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: finale list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [Finale] Finale pro needed > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-1068676991 > MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) > Precedence: list > Message: 10 > > > --Apple-Mail-1-1068676991 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=US-ASCII; > format=flowed > > Dear list, > > The New York City based S.E.M. Ensemble needs a professional computer > engraver immediately for a notation job. > > Please contact me off-list for additional information. > > Thanks. > > Herman > --Apple-Mail-1-1068676991 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Type: text/enriched; > charset=US-ASCII > > Dear list, > > > The New York City based S.E.M. Ensemble needs a professional computer > engraver <underline>immediately</underline> for a notation job. > > > Please contact me off-list for additional information. > > > Thanks. > > > Herman > --Apple-Mail-1-1068676991-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:34:29 -0800 > From: Mark D Lew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Finale list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Repeating rhythms > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 11 > > > On Jan 11, 2004, at 3:14 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: > >> Does anyone know whether there is a simpler way to enter a repeating >> rhythm >> in Finale, than to enter every note? The rhythm is half a measure >> long, that >> half measure has the same pitches. Then it repeats, with the pitches >> changing with every repeat. >> >> Is there a way to enter the pitches as half notes, and then copy the >> rhythm >> onto them? > > Probably not the answer you're looking for, but when I encounter > something like that I generally mass copy the pattern with whatever > pitches. Then I move through it in Speedy qwerty typing: alpha > character, clear, enter, arrow. The latter three keys are a repetitive > motion in the right hand, so I can power through pretty quickly without > ever taking my eyes from the source copy. > > mdl > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:45:15 -0800 > From: Mark D Lew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Finale 3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Stem direction > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 12 > > On Jan 11, 2004, at 6:27 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: > >> As a side note: Older English publication often show the middle line >> notes >> stem up (ie in the old Purcell complete edition). > > I just finished copying a late 19th century French song in which middle > line notes had upstems. I'm pretty sure the reason was because the > lyric was placed in a position where a downstem from the middle line > would (barely) touch the lyric text. > > As for the rule originally stated, I think it makes perfect sense. > Middle line notes stem down by default, but if some peculiarity of the > context makes it preferably to have it go up instead, I'll switch it > without hesitation. It doesn't happen often, but it does occasionally. > > I use the same reasoning for a beam between two notes equidistant from > the center. There, the issue comes up far more often. I typically use > modern beaming in voice parts (ie, I beam them like an instrument part, > not a separate flag for each syllable). If I've got a treble voice > singing G-D on a single beam, if the beam goes down it's going to come > within a hair-breadth of the lyric. So I flip it to up. > > mdl > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:29:20 +0100 > From: Michael Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Mark D Lew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Finale list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Repeating rhythms > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: list > Message: 13 > > Mark, do you have Finale 2004? If so, you can use the new "Repitch" > tool in Simple entry to do exactly what you describe but with one > keystroke instead of four: just type the new pitches with the alpha > characters. > > Best wishes, > > Michael Cook > > At 19:34 -0800 11/01/2004, Mark D Lew wrote: >> On Jan 11, 2004, at 3:14 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: >> >>> Does anyone know whether there is a simpler way to enter a repeating rhythm >>> in Finale, than to enter every note? The rhythm is half a measure long, that >>> half measure has the same pitches. Then it repeats, with the pitches >>> changing with every repeat. >>> >>> Is there a way to enter the pitches as half notes, and then copy the rhythm >>> onto them? >> >> Probably not the answer you're looking for, but when I encounter >> something like that I generally mass copy the pattern with whatever >> pitches. Then I move through it in Speedy qwerty typing: alpha >> character, clear, enter, arrow. The latter three keys are a >> repetitive motion in the right hand, so I can power through pretty >> quickly without ever taking my eyes from the source copy. >> >> mdl >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Finale mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:40:22 +0100 > From: Johannes Gebauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Finale 3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Repeating rhythms > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 14 > > Unfortunately that doesn't work: It seems that this plugin requires the same > _number_ of notes in the pitch staff. Since this is 5 per half measure, plus > a rest, it actually ends up being just as much work. I want to enter half > notes in the pitch staff, and then have the rhythm copied onto it, keeping > the same pitch for half a measure. > > I guess I will have to enter all the notes. But this would be a pretty handy > plugin if it existed. > > Johannes > > On 11.01.2004 20:59 Uhr, Ole Buck wrote > >>> Does anyone know whether there is a simpler way to enter a repeating rhythm >>> in Finale, than to enter every note? The rhythm is half a measure long, that >>> half measure has the same pitches. Then it repeats, with the pitches >>> changing with every repeat. >>> >>> Is there a way to enter the pitches as half notes, and then copy the rhythm >>> onto them? >>> >> >> >> I have often used TGTools/Music/Combine Pitches and Rhythm, if I have >> some rhytmical values and want to change only the pitches; you have to >> use a staff above for the changing pitches. > > -- > http://www.musikmanufaktur.com > http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:02:15 +0100 > From: Hans Swinnen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Johannes Gebauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Finale 3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Repeating rhythms > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 15 > > Johannes, > > if I understand you correctly, you could copy one half a measure with > Mass Mover as many times as you need, then apply the Single Pitch PI > from Finale on ev'ry half measure. > > Hans > > > Johannes Gebauer wrote: >> Unfortunately that doesn't work: It seems that this plugin requires the same >> _number_ of notes in the pitch staff. Since this is 5 per half measure, plus >> a rest, it actually ends up being just as much work. I want to enter half >> notes in the pitch staff, and then have the rhythm copied onto it, keeping >> the same pitch for half a measure. >> >> I guess I will have to enter all the notes. But this would be a pretty handy >> plugin if it existed. >> >> Johannes >> >> On 11.01.2004 20:59 Uhr, Ole Buck wrote >> >> >>>> Does anyone know whether there is a simpler way to enter a repeating rhythm >>>> in Finale, than to enter every note? The rhythm is half a measure long, >>>> that >>>> half measure has the same pitches. Then it repeats, with the pitches >>>> changing with every repeat. >>>> >>>> Is there a way to enter the pitches as half notes, and then copy the rhythm >>>> onto them? >>>> >>> >>> >>> I have often used TGTools/Music/Combine Pitches and Rhythm, if I have >>> some rhytmical values and want to change only the pitches; you have to >>> use a staff above for the changing pitches. >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 03:20:14 -0800 > From: Mark D Lew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Finale list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Repeating rhythms > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 16 > > On Jan 11, 2004, at 11:29 PM, Michael Cook wrote: > >> Mark, do you have Finale 2004? If so, you can use the new "Repitch" >> tool in Simple entry to do exactly what you describe but with one >> keystroke instead of four: just type the new pitches with the alpha >> characters. > > Nope, I'm on 2k2. But I look forward to increasing my productivity by > 33% in such passages, as soon as Fin Mac 2k4 arrives. > > mdl > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:39:21 +0100 > From: Johannes Gebauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Finale 3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Repeating rhythms > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 17 > > On 12.01.2004 12:02 Uhr, Hans Swinnen wrote > >> Johannes, >> >> if I understand you correctly, you could copy one half a measure with >> Mass Mover as many times as you need, then apply the Single Pitch PI >> from Finale on ev'ry half measure. > > Unfortunately that doesn't work either: I am dealing with chords, rather > than single pitches. Besides, I think handling this plugin actually takes > too much time. > Instead I have found a much better way: I programmed a Macro to enter the > rhythm for me. I only have to hold the pitches on the MIDI keyboard and > press a temp shortcut key, off it goes. Very efficient. > > Johannes > -- > http://www.musikmanufaktur.com > http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:52:01 -0500 > From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Nonpop? > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: list > Message: 18 > > Linda, > > Thanks for this response. I think it gets to the heart of what such > general/vague musical words help us express. > > At 01:28 PM 1/11/04 -0500, Linda Worsley wrote: >> But "non-pop" strikes me as horrible... >> Non pop equals = >> * Not popular (in the sense that people don't generally like it, not >> in the commercial sense) > > This is generally true, but not especially important, I think. "Pop" > doesn't actually mean popular anymore (consider all those failed pop > bands). It's just a meta-genre describing a range of styles, compositional > concepts, and a certain level of art(y) musical creation that's hardly more > definable than some of the sub-genres. But its broad-brushiness doesn't > make it un-useful. > >> * If not pop, then what? It's a negative rather than a positive. >> * Cf. above. It's a negative. > > That's not important. Once it gets past a certain stage of use, the 'non' > is merely subsumed into the word as a whole. Besides, consider some of the > "positive negatives" out there -- nonproliferation, inimitable, nonfat, > incorruptible, unabased, nondiscrimination, indefatigable, unbiased are all > good. Some have had their positives entirely disappear, such as nonchalant > and inept. Some have just become "word words," like nonfiction and nonstop > (hey, those are just like nonpop! Voila! QED! Etc.!). And nonpareils, yum! > >> * For a "serious" or "art" or whatever genre, it's a pretty "poppy," hip > term. > > "Serious" or "art" are all part of the marketing world. Unless you've never > accepted a commission, received royalties, or negotiated for a performance, > recording, engraving, etc., then you are indeed part of marketing. Hipness > is usually good in marketing, almost necessary, whether it's semiquavers or > snake oil. (And, in the future, when "nonpop" falls into the same category > as "new music" or "avant-garde", then off the gangplank with it!) Yes, for > some types of marketing, an old-fashioned term is useful ... be even retro > is hip (gawd, just *listen* to all those awful commercials plundering music > of the 1980s right now). > >> * It's doesn't fall "trippingly on the tongue" in my opinion. It's >> abrupt and awkward. > > There's discomfort in using any neologism. Use it for a while. You'll be > surprised. Try it in conversation unapologetically, as if the word always > existed. Don't blink. :) > >> There just ISN'T a good tag for this music, and maybe shouldn't be. >> Even "Pop" doesn't adequately describe jazz, rock, country, raom >> etc,,, which are in turn divided into sub-categories. > > I already agreed with that, pointing out how some subgenres cross the > pop/nonpop boundary easily. I'm not arguing genres, I'm suggesting a > functional word for the missing metagenre-that-used-to-be-called-classical. > >> But Tower >> Records asks you if you want blues, country, dance, folk, jazz, rap, >> hip-hop, Latin, Rock, Pop, etc.... OR... yup... >> "classical". Period. And I don't think anyone is confused. > > Who said confused? It's really a matter of association and utility and > (yes) marketing. I don't *want* my music associated with the New Music, > Avant-Garde, Contemporary Music audience-rejecting disasters, and most > especially with tinkly, quaint, effete, dwem Classical Music. Yes, my music > can be confrontational, confusing, avant-garde or any of what *did* make > audiences run, and I even write some purty orchestral tunes, but here's no > point in prejudicing the listener with totally inappropriate genres. At > least nonpop is (for now) reasonably neutral, and the generation that > learned to dislike nonpop music is dying off rapidly enough to keep it > untainted. > > So why does Tower (I thought they went bankrupt?) use "Classical"? Because > they haven't had much of an option, and since it's such a small market > niche anyway, why bother to change? Some stores do have nonpop subgenres > (minimalist comes to mind), but I rarely go to record stores. Online > catalogs are much richer in their genre divisions. I asked MP3.com to add > more subgenres, and they did -- back when Michael Robertson personally > answered email. (With MP3.com gone, some of that wonderful genre richness > is also gone from visibility.) > >> Although I am often reduced to calling an entire genre "classical" or >> "art music" or whatever, I try to be as specific as Tower is with >> what we call "pop" music. If someone asks me what kind of music I >> write, I generally say "what kind of music do you want?" > > If you are introduced as a composer offhandedly at a party, do you *really* > say that? I *really* say I compose nonpop. If there's a quizzical look, I > add, "what used to be called classical music." There are almost never > followups to that, except for the necrosone crowd (mostly National Public > Radio listeners, a realm where new nonpop is rarely heard), who will take > offense to their beloved [fill in the composer] being dissed with such a term. > >> "My favorites kinds of music to write are symphonic works, chamber >> music, and music for film or theater.." >> That's too many words, perhaps, but it's pretty clear. > > That's a good qualification, but it's mostly nonpop you're writing, isn't > it? Why not just say that? One word and you're done! > >> And radio programs are called "Evening concert" or "Symphonic >> Masterpieces" or even "Morning classics" (all of which I've heard on >> radio stations across the country) pretty much tell it all. any of >> those can be partly or all "new music," partly or all old music, or a >> mixture. But no one is going to tune in expecting Eminem or the >> Beatles (however "classic" the latter might be). > > How about stopping at "But no one is going to tune in"? :) > >> Ah... language... dontcha love it? > > You bet. > > Dennis > a/k/a Senior Editor, The Transitive Empire > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:39:18 -0500 (EST) > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Finale] Reducing the size of time signatures, clefs, > accidentals? > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Precedence: list > Message: 19 > > Dear Finale List: > > Is it possible to reduce the size of individual clefs, time signatures and > accidentals? > I didn't see anything in the manual other than note, staff and page > reductions, or reductions on a global scale. > As always, thanks for your great help. > > George Boziwick > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:39:35 +0100 > From: "d. collins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Stem direction > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: list > Message: 20 > > I thought I sent this message the other day, but just stumbled on it in my > out box. > > Thanks to all for the comments and the sound advice. > > Johannes ased: >> In what way do your slurs not look good? > > Because they don't go in the same direction as the music: from B to A the > slur will be ascending (at least with my regular settings). > > Dennis > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:01:20 -0600 > From: Richard Huggins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Finale List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Reducing the size of time signatures, clefs, > accidentals? > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 21 > > George, go Options > Select Default Fonts > Notation > and after that > item-by-item select Clef, Time Signature and whatever else you want smaller. > For each one, click the Set Font button and change the size for the selected > element from its default of 24 pt. to whatever you wish, i.e. 20 pt, 18 pt. > etc. When you close the box you'll see that those elements are smaller. > > Richard > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Is it possible to reduce the size of individual clefs, time signatures and >> accidentals? >> I didn't see anything in the manual other than note, staff and page >> reductions, or reductions on a global scale. >> As always, thanks for your great help. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:24:45 +0100 > From: Johannes Gebauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Finale list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Stem direction > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 22 > > On 12.01.2004 17:39 Uhr, d. collins wrote > >> Because they don't go in the same direction as the music: from B to A the >> slur will be ascending (at least with my regular settings). > > Change your settings. > > Johannes > -- > http://www.musikmanufaktur.com > http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:46:34 +0100 > From: Michael Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Finale] Reducing the size of time signatures, clefs, > accidentals? > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: list > Message: 23 > > It's easy to reduce the size of a single accidental: use the > Accidental Mover tool in Special tools. Click on the measure, double > click on the handle of the accidental you want to edit and you'll see > a dialog that permits you to do several things, including resizing > the accidental. > > For clefs and time signatures things are a bit more complex. Richard > Huggins told you how to reduce the size of all clefs (or all time > signatures) in the document, but I understand you just want to change > the size of certain instances of clefs or time signatures. Depending > on exactly what you want to do, there are different tricks: let me > know the exact situation and I can give you a technique to achieve > what you want. > > Best wishes, > > Michael Cook > > > > At 11:39 -0500 12/01/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Dear Finale List: >> >> Is it possible to reduce the size of individual clefs, time signatures and >> accidentals? >> I didn't see anything in the manual other than note, staff and page >> reductions, or reductions on a global scale. >> As always, thanks for your great help. >> >> George Boziwick >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Finale mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:47:24 -0500 > From: "David H. Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Finale] Reducing the size of time signatures, clefs, > accidentals? > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 24 > > I don't know of a way to reduce an individual clef or a time signature > or key signature other than to redefine the size for all instances of > the same, in the Options/Document Settings dialog. Under Fonts you can > redefine the font size for any of those items, but it will affect the > entire file, not just one instance. > > You can redefine the size of an accidental within the music by using the > Special Tools and selecting the flat sign with the left/right arrows. > Double click on the handle for the accidental you want resized and enter > the size you want in the dialog that pops up. I don't know of a way to > alter the size for specific accidentals in the key signature. > > Time Signatures can be gotten around by hiding the one that shows up and > then creating a shape expression the size you want and placing it where > the hidden time signature would go. I suppose you could do the same for > key signatures, hiding the key signature and then creating expressions, > one for flat and one for sharp in the different sizes you want and then > placing them appropriately. Perhaps using Accidentals rather than > expressions might make spacing issues easier. > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> Dear Finale List: >> >> Is it possible to reduce the size of individual clefs, time signatures and >> accidentals? >> I didn't see anything in the manual other than note, staff and page >> reductions, or reductions on a global scale. >> As always, thanks for your great help. >> >> George Boziwick >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Finale mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> >> . >> > > -- > David H. Bailey > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:48:21 -0500 > From: "David H. Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Finale list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Stem direction > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 25 > > Or change the slur. > > > Johannes Gebauer wrote: > >> On 12.01.2004 17:39 Uhr, d. collins wrote >> >> >>> Because they don't go in the same direction as the music: from B to A the >>> slur will be ascending (at least with my regular settings). >> >> >> Change your settings. >> >> Johannes > > -- > David H. Bailey > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Finale mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > End of Finale Digest, Vol 6, Issue 12 > ************************************* > > _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
