On 9 Feb 2005 at 21:11, Richard Yates wrote: > > > > That doesn't mean grammar has any significance to the meaning of > > > > any particular utterance (though it certainly *could*). > > > > > > If you really believe this then I can only assume that you have a > > > rather nonstandard definition of 'grammar' in mind. Can you write > > > some examples of utterances in which you think grammar has no > > > significance to the meaning? Can you cite any such sentences in > > > posts to this list? > > > > Does the carrier wave of the FM signal on your favorite radio > > station have any significance to the programming of that radio > > station? > > Faulty analogy. A carrier wave is constant throughout a broadcast. It > carries no information except its frequency.
Grammar as a system of structuring communication is constant throughout the message, and it's that system that is used to convey information. The grammatical system itself does not convey any information about the message. > Grammar, by contrast, is one means by which meaning is embedded into > and extracted from sentences. One might even say that, in addition to > the meanings of the individual words (which in a random order would > convey no meaningful sentence), grammar is absolutely essential for > meaning. Like the carrier wave. > Perhaps you could choose another analogy, or answer the questions I > asked to try to ensure no misunderstanding of your use of terms as you > say has occurred recently. When I say "grammar" I mean the entire system of grammar, the whole set of rules that control whether a collection of words has meaning or not. "Man bites dog" has meaning because it is a grammatical construction. "Man dog bites" is an ungrammatical construction, and, thus, has no meaning. So, yes, the grammatical *system* is required to construct meaning. But the system itself is not part of the meaning conveyed. -- David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associates http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
