The way you talked about the Brahms quote was, at least as I understood it, on the lines of "Brahms says this, and how could anyone disagree with Brahms". It's pretty much the same as someone once said to me "you are not Christianed, you will never understand Bach."
This is an attitude I am not willing to accept, whether it comes from Brahms or from anyone else.
Pretty much besides the point, but Brahms himself may have been a spritual person, but he wasn't exactly the model of a good Christian. Or else perhaps Schumann would have written some more music. But that's another point.
BTW, I love Brahms's music.
Johannes
Raymond Horton schrieb:
Johannes Gebauer wrote:
Raymond Horton schrieb:
OK, if you approve, not only of David's disagreeing with Brahms (nothing wrong with that) but of the less-than-civil tone of his disagreement, (which takes it to a different level) than I will ask you to provide an example of a truly great composer that is an atheist.
Just for your information, Ryamond, I find this attitude far more offensive than anything David has said. I am an Atheist.
I also believe that this question is completely misleading, as not many people in the 18th or 19th century would admit to being an atheist, since it was dangerous, certainly for a composer.
I could name you a few where I personally suspect that they were atheists, but I fear this would lead to more controversal discussions.
Finally I would like to support David on the note that Brahms was indeed full of shit.
And you can stop reading here now, if this offends you.
Johannes
I am not offended by any of this discussion. I don't appreciate being attacked for quoting a source pertinent to the discussion. I think every composer should read that book. It is the atheists here who can't seem to abide a discussion. Why can't we handle the discussion? Why can't you go ahead and SAY who you "personally suspect were atheists"? (Not that it matters, but I was an atheist, , or I thought I was an atheist, but I was probably an agnostic, for many years, btw.) Now I'm a mainstream Christian, Kerry-voting, left-wing Democrat. Again, I thought we were grown-ups. I quote Brahms, mention G_d, and all of a sudden, I'm Mark Furman or Hitler. _______________________________________________
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