On Wednesday, December 25, 2002, at 05:08 PM, Jeremy Erwin wrote:
On Wednesday, December 25, 2002, at 03:26 PM, lenny bruce wrote:Tenon is getting away with being able to SELL the open-source completely-free XFree86 with a teeny tiny modification while forbidding XonX from doing it.Umm. Perhaps you should look at http://www.xfree86.org/4.2.1/LICENSE1.html
Assuming that Tenon uses XFree86 sources (an assumption that I am unable to verify-- for all I know it could be derived from the X consortium sources), Tenon is perfectly within its rights to sublicense such software to its users.
hey... please don't take me on my word alone... let me quote (and you can verify)
on http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/x11/intro.php#def-xtools it says:
1.5 What is Xtools?Xtools is a product of Tenon Intersystems. It is a version of X11 for Mac OS X, based on XFree86.
go get it and you tell me... http://www.tenon.com/~downloads/xtools/X11Core-4.2.pkg.tar.gz http://www.tenon.com/~downloads/xtools/Xtools11a1.dmg.gz http://www.tenon.com/~downloads/xtools/Documentation/XtoolsManual.pdf on http://www.tenon.com/products/response.php it says:
Important Information
This version of Xtools comes with a license that's valid for 14 days after the date of installation. In order to change licenses, go to the Preference Panels in Xtools and select "License". You can then either type in the new license, or copy and paste it in.
Please read through the Xtools documentation <http://www.tenon.com/~downloads/xtools/Documentation/ XtoolsManual.pdf> and Release notes before contacting Technical Support. The size of each downloadable piece is shown.
The files are downloaded in .dmg.sit format. This means, after downloading and decompressing the file with Stuffit Expander, you will have a disk image mountable with Diskcopy.
Click here for the Xtools Uninstall instructions.
Downloads
It is necessary to download both the Xtools application and the X11 core package, which is based on the XFree86 4.2, in order for Xtools to work properly. Download each of these components from the links below.
Xtools 1.1a1 Application (1MB)
<http://www.tenon.com/~downloads/xtools/Xtools11a1.dmg.gz>
X11 Core Package (55MB)
<http://www.tenon.com/~downloads/xtools/X11Core-4.2.pkg.tar.gz>
Because of some library changes that Apple made, it is necessary to install an updated xterm application when running on OS X 10.2 (Jaguar). This update can be downloaded from the following link. Note: As this update is for Mac OS X 10.2 only, it will cause xterm to stop working on OS X 10.1.
Jaguar XTerm Update
<http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/xonx/ Jaguar_XTerm_Update.zip?download>
Alternate Package
If you are running Xtools 1.04 on Mac OS X 10.1, or if you prefer the oroginal (older) Xtools application, you can download Xtools 1.04.
Note: The latest XFree86 4.2 foundation can be used for Xtools 1.04. This way, you can switch between Xtools 1.04 and Xtools 1.1a1.
Xtools 1.0.4 Release [Full Version]
What's most interesting is how Fink creator Christoph Pfisterer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
is upset at everyone who sells XFree86 EXCEPT FOR Tenon
Christoph argues with the truly lousy ripoff merchant Jeshua Lacock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> because he sells XFree86 commercially on CD without bothering to explain that his company didn't port XFree86 to the Mac and that they have nothing to do with the production other than adding a tiny modification... in this case, this dirty scumbag simply grabs what Fink installs and repackages it in a commercial installer.
http://fink.sourceforge.net/pr/openosx.php explains:
OpenOSX is a business that sells a range of CDs of Open Source applications. The GIMP CD they sell is based to a large part of Fink 0.2.1. Until very recently, the OpenOSX web site made no mention at all of Fink, and as far as I can tell, the CDs themselves still contain no hints. My impression (and that of many others) was that OpenOSX did all the porting - which has now turned out to be wrong.
I was never contacted by OpenOSX about their usage of Fink. Instead, I was notified of the situation by a third party. What followed was a rather unpleasant e-mail conversation with OpenOSX owner Jeshua Lacock. The net result? We almost broke into a flame war and OpenOSX has slightly modified their web site to cover their tracks. They still don't have the courage to openly say which parts are their work and which parts aren't. It also appears they don't want to cooperate with the rest of the Mac OS X Open Source community, and Jeshua doesn't feel like responding to my mails as promised.
which Christoph bravely quotes on Fink's website http://fink.sourceforge.net/pr/openosx-thread.php and I point out this interesting rally:
On Wed, Aug 08 16:40:16 2001 +0200, Christoph Pfisterer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
>We are also broadening the open source community base: by attracting
>users who would have never used or heard of the software; due to the
>complexities involved. Some people (esp. Mac users) will pay to avoid
>typing or learning a single 'unix' command, and our products offer far
>more then that.
>
>Have you ever stopped to think that people actually appreciate the
>service we offer? Many are informed of the alternatives and
>appreciate the time savings involved with our products. Some people
>can't even download the files due to bandwidth limits.
I am well aware of all this and I never denied any of it. If fact, I
said:
very interesting...You and many others understand what the '99' means, so what is the issue?I know this, because I happen to be on the XonX team and I'm familiar with the versioning scheme of XFree86. But I seriously doubt that "many others", especially your target group, are familiar enough with XFree86 to know this.
... and expect people to find the document on version numbering and realize what it is they get, all of their own.The information is available, and we give a link to xfreee86.org
As for the license with XFree86, it can be distributed under the GNU GPL, or any public or commercial license. Look at what Tenon's done: They modified XFree86 and are selling it under a commercial license.I know this. I just wanted to point it out. Personally, I think it is misleading.
Read that paragraph again, please. I'm not claiming to know anything about your work, and I'm not "questioning" you. Please, be more careful.The other point is about giving back to the community. The Open Source community is based on the idea of sharing. If you make improvements to a piece of Open Source software, you are encouraged to contribute your modifications back to the maintainers so that everyone can profit from your work.How do you know what changes I have made or not made? How do you know what I have contributed or not contributed? Who are you to question me?
The intention of that paragraph was to remind you that you're not alone. I would be happy to work together with you on this. I'm sure you have some ideas how we can make life easier for Mac OS X users that want to use Open Source software. I'd also be happy to help you to improve your installer and keep it up to date.
I have in fact, donated more then a year of my time to the open source community. Further more, our products are distributed under the GNU GPL, so our products may be freely copied and distributed.I am well aware of all this and I never denied any of it. If fact, I said:
We are also broadening the open source community base: by attracting users who would have never used or heard of the software; due to the complexities involved. Some people (esp. Mac users) will pay to avoid typing or learning a single 'unix' command, and our products offer far more then that.
Have you ever stopped to think that people actually appreciate the service we offer? Many are informed of the alternatives and appreciate the time savings involved with our products. Some people can't even download the files due to bandwidth limits.
"I don't doubt that you invested considerable work into packaging and instructions, and you deserve credit for that."
Now, my response to your last mail:
I have spent more then eight months _full_time_ working for the open source community for _free_, and I am just trying to fund my current and future open source projects.a) I never said that you didn't work on this stuff. See above.
b) I just checked your website again to make sure.
All I can find is offers for CDs starting at $30.
That's not what I call 'free'.
c) I don't have a problem with your business model. Far from it.
I have a problem with what you're claiming (explicitly or implicitly) as your work.
I was curious about the $30 so I went surfing and I really got the giggles
from this description that appears on scam-artist Jeshua Lacock's company page
http://www.openosx.com/company/index.html
hahahahahahahaha...OpenOSX(TM), formed in June 2001, is a company dedicated to serving, and expanding, the Macintosh community.
well, let's say "confusing and profiteering from the Macintosh community" instead
then on his product page attempting to justify his ripoff
while lying in a whole new way... http://www.openosx.com/xfree86/index.html
Install XFree 4.2.1 configured with the OroborOSX window manager in less then 5 minutes by simply double-clicking the package icon.
Now built with gcc 3.1, at least 20% faster than ever.
Without typing a single "UNIX" command, our CD will install and fully configure XFree86 4.2.1 with the Oroborus Window Manager 0.8b2 for Mac OS 10.2.x, in minutes with ease.
XFree is an implementation of the X-Window library that is the "UNIX" standard graphical user interface. There are thousands of existing open source and commercial Applications that use X-Windows that may be used after installation.
This CD offers nearly identical functionality as Tenon's product Xtools for a small fraction of the cost.
and again here on http://www.openosx.com/gimp/index.html
well, NEARLY, if you consider that OpenOSX's "The Gimp" discBundled with the CD or CD-Subscription:
* The Gimp 1.2.2 and 1.2.3 Pre 2
* Limited installation technical support
* Xfree86 4.1.99.1 fully configured with the Oroborus Window Manager,
with the "Agua" theme. Other themes available on the CD are:
Mac OS 9 Classic theme, Oroborus, and Windows 95
* GTK 1.2.8
* Complete documentation and tutorials in HTML and PDF format
* Complete source code for all applications installed is included on the CD
* de-installation software
The included XFree86 also offers nearly identical functionality as Tenon's product Xtools for a fraction of the cost.
LACKS the single feature on which Tenon competes... Hardware OpenGL support
at least OpenOSX is _only_ LYING...
it's a hair better than Tenon's position of CRIMINAL RACKETEERING
to prevent XonX from releasing XFree86 with Hardware OpenGL support for Mac OS X
so they can make a quick buck off of free software they didn't write
Tenon has to be preventing XonX through criminal means
from releasing XFree86 with Hardware OpenGL support for Mac OS X
because Apple provides the necessary shared libraries and headers
pre-installed for free in /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework
at $30 for the basic XFree86 ripoff disc from OpenOSX,
why not just spend the additional $169
to get in on what Tenon is breaking the law
to hold back from you???
for $80, Jeshua Lacock is willing to sell you
a subscription to open-source software
which you can just download yourself for free...
WHAT A BARGAIN!
imagine if only Christoph had no scruples whatsoever
and learned how to put up a shopping cart on a webpage,
he could make this money off THE WORK HE ACTUALLY DID!!!
but no! Christoph HAS scruples and an incredibly generous nature as well
and somehow Tenon and Joshua Lecock think his kindness
gives them a license to profit from his work
while you're pondering that obviously wrong concept
let's travel back in time and trace the history of Tenon's criminal racketeering
and witness the point at which Tenon's owners said to themselves:
"hey, screw this open-source noise, let's threaten these nerds and make a buck off 'em"
follow along the story quoted from http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/x11/history.php
Running X11 - 2 History
[Sorry for the epic language, I couldn't resist...]
2.1 The early days
In the beginning, there was void. Darwin was in its infancy, Mac OS X was still in development and there was no X11 implementation for both of them.
Then there came John Carmack and ported XFree86 to Mac OS X Server, which was the only OS in the Darwin family available at that time. Later that port was updated for XFree86 4.0 and Darwin 1.0 by Dave Zarzycki. The patches found their way into the Darwin CVS repository and slept there, waiting for things to come.
2.2 XonX forms
One fine day Torrey T. Lyons came along and gave the Darwin patches the attention they had been waiting for. Finally, he brought them to a new home, the official XFree86 CVS repository. This was the time of the Mac OS X Public Beta and Darwin 1.2. XFree86 4.0.2 worked fine on Darwin, but on Mac OS X it required users to log out of Aqua and go to the console to run it. So Torrey gathered the XonX team around him and set out on a voyage to bring XFree86 to Mac OS X.
At about the same time Tenon started to build Xtools, using XFree86 4.0 as the foundation.
2.3 To root or not to root
Soon the XonX team had XFree86 running in a fullscreen mode in parallel to Quartz and was putting out test releases for adventurous users. The test releases were called XFree86 Aqua, or XAqua for short. Since Torrey had taken the lead, changes went directly to XFree86's CVS repository, which was heading towards the 4.1.0 release.
In the first stages interfacing with Quartz was done via a small application called Xmaster.app (written with Carbon, then rewritten with Cocoa). Later that code was integrated into the X server proper, giving birth to XDarwin.app. Shared library support was also added at this time (and Tenon was convinced to use this set of patches instead of their own to ensure binary compatibility). There was even good progress on a rootless mode (using the Carbon API), but alas, it was too late to get it into XFree86 4.1.0. And the rootless patch was free, and continued to float around the net. After XFree86 4.1.0 shipped with just the fullscreen mode, work on the rootless mode continued, now using the Cocoa API. An experimental rootless mode was put into XFree86's CVS repository.
In the meantime, Apple released Mac OS X 10.0 and Darwin 1.3, and Tenon released Xtools 1.0 some weeks after that.
Development continued on integrating the rootless mode into XFree86, so that by the time XFree86 4.2.0 shipped in January 2002, the Darwin/Mac OS X version had been completely integrated into the main XFree86 distribution.
gosh golly gee, Tenon decided to use
the shared library support developed by the XonX team <--- actual hard work - free
to add Hardware OpenGL support by making the simple easy link <--- bullshit not worth $199
to Apple's free OpenGL shared libraries and headers <--- actual hard work - free
INSTEAD OF THE USING CODE THAT TENON HAD DEVELOPED THEMSELVES <--- because they're scum
Hmmmmm... wow... I think we need to contact some government officials
to round up Tenon and fix their little red wagon
because making a profit on the backs of unpaid workers is wrong
especially when they're preventing that work from coming out for free as intended
so they can make that profit... it's so Micro$oft-like... should I call the US-DOJ?
leafing through Tenon's XTools manual, I noticed this insane lie
In the early '80s, MIT researchers extended UNIX by standardizing the way graphical applications wrote to the display, enabling software developers to write their graphical interfaces once, knowing that their applications would easily display on a wide range of graphical devices, supported by many different operating systems. This method of sending graphical output to the computer screen was called X and for more than a decade UNIX systems have routinely included this X protocol, known as the X Window System(tm), as part of the operating system.
Interestingly, despite its UNIX heritage, Appleès new operating system, called Mac OS X(tm) (pronounced 'ten') does not include the X (pronounced 'X') protocol. Tenon's Xtools(tm) is designed to fill that gap.
Xtools is an implementation of MITès X Window System designed specifically for Apple's OS X operating system. Xtools is a Cocoa application, built from-the-ground-up to take advantage of Apple's new CoreGraphics and Quartz display engine. In order to enable OS X users to retain the beautiful Aqua desktop, while still benefiting from the unique aspects of Xtools, Xtools supports rootless X Windows on the Aqua desktop.
Xtools is primarily used by enterprise and academic users who are accustomed to accessing various applications on remote machines (e.g. SGI, HP, DEC, etc.). Their desktop platform of choice is Apple's Aqua OS X and Xtools lets them seamlessly use native Macintosh applications side-by-side with remote scientific and engineering applications. Consumers who want access to the hundreds of open source X games are also Xtools users.
Yeah... thank GOD we have the friendly and generous folks at Tenon, who worked so hard like little elves in Santa's workshop feverishly toiling to restore to Mac OS X what those misguided schmucks at Apple Computer hatefully TOOK AWAY from us.
Tenon's such a caring and considerate company. It's so nice to see how they make sure to respect the trademarks of every company and product they mention... but if you think about it, they really only respect people with money... they don't respect the open-source programmers who they know full well can't fight back with lawyers. They only respect people with money... and they want your money... a lot of money... for a product they simply didn't write.
Back to Apple and Mac OS X for a moment... Let's tell the truth since Tenon won't:
Apple didn't remove X11 from OS X, it was never there for them to remove. Apple built OS X with NeXTStep/OpenStep, which they acquired when they bought NeXT, the company Apple-founder Steve Jobs created after John Sculley forced him out of Apple. NeXT built NeXTStep/OpenStep with Carnagie Mellon's Mach kernel to run the University Of California's BSD UNIX... it doesn't use the X Window System because NeXT designed and built a brand new window-server in Objective C to implement Adobe's PostScript directly as a screen display language. Apple finally purged itself of Sculley, Gassee, Spindler, and Amelio just in time to save the Macintosh from the implosion of Copland while they could still benefit from the accidental hardware-independence they gained switching from Motorola's 68000 CISC series to IBM's PowerPC RISC chip. Macintosh succeeds in spite of Apple's best attempts to kill it. Apple's engineers actually built several systems whose projects were killed because they were based on the Mach kernel, including one interestingly titled Jaguar that became the ill-fated Be OS that the ex-Apple Steve-Jobs-Clone Gassee drove into the ground.
Apple was adventurous in following NeXT's brilliant example of using their own window server instead of X11 like everybody else. Apple divided NeXT's original window server into Aqua, Quartz, and Cocoa. Aqua became the window server, newly hacked to serve windows not only for Quartz (the remnants of NeXT's Adobe Display PostScript mixed with enough Apple's QuickDraw to make their point with Adobe), but now for OpenGL, and QuickTime (directly, for the first time ever). Cocoa continues to display through in Aqua through its original Quartz, though now it benefits an infusion of some Apple middleware originally designed for Copland. Java, Carbon (Apple's accidentally portable Mac OS APIs), and Classic (a WINE-like backward-compatibility mode) use OpenGL in Aqua. Apple managed to tie Quartz to OpenGL for a huge hardware boost in Mac OS 10.2 and called it QuartzExtreme.
Apple's diagram on http://developer.apple.com/macosx/architecture/index.html
is close to reality but not quite... here's the truth:
Mac OS X 10.0-10.1 Mac OS X 10.2
----- Aqua --- --------\ /---- Aqua -------\
/ | \ SW-OpenGL /-- HW-OpenGL ------- SW-OpenGL
Quartz HW-OpenGL QuickTime (X11) Quartz / \ \ \ (X11)
| / | \ \ | | | | | | \
Cocoa Java Carbon Classic | (/sw) Cocoa Classic Carbon Java QuickTime (/sw)
| | | | | | | | | | | |
---------- Darwin ------------- ----------------Darwin--------------
I added XonX'd XFree86 as mapped through the painfully-slow Software OpenGL.
This is the result of the Criminal Racketeering that Tenon has perpetuated on us so far.
(I put X11 and /sw in parentheses because most people don't have these add-ons)
Notice that Apple's Classic, Carbon, and Java benefitted from HW OpenGL from OS X 10.0.
Then, in OS X 10.2, Apple routed everything through OpenGL to give us the HW speed benefit
but Tenon continues to force XonX's XFree86 to suffer SW OpenGL through racketeering.
I'm reminded of how Micro$oft licensed Mosaic for tip change ($50,000) from NSCA
and used Marc Andressen's original code to destroy his attempt to market it
by giving it away for free, then bundling it, then integrating it into Windoze itself
Oh, I know that Spyglass and others made web browsers
using the same $50,000 Mosaic license NCSA was selling
cruelly profiting from the free work of college students
who Microsoft (and NCSA) denied the chance to profit from their work and true genius
but what Tenon is doing is a hundred times worse
because Christoph and the other XonX members are trying to give the software to us for free
yet Tenon cruelly insists on blocking XonX from giving us Hardware OpenGL support
so they can profit from the hard work and true genius of XFree86, XonX, and Apple Computer
while providing nothing of their own creation for the $199...
maybe Tenon is a Japanese company and I'm misunderstanding a cultural thing...
could they be shipping the XTools CD wrapped with intricate beautiful packaging
which is an art form in itself... lovely rice paper hand-painted with landscapes?
I'd pay $199 for that.
I just wish Tenon would allow XonX to release
XFree86 for Mac OS X with Hardware OpenGL support
since Tenon didn't write * XFree86
* the shared library support that enables the OpenGL HW link
* Apple's handwritten OpenGL support for specific hardware
I believe Tenon's owners should spend some time in prison like everyone else
and be ordered to give back all the money they collected through this criminal racketeering
because they can't give us back the time, cpu cycles, and frustration they cost us...
or the lost business they cost other developers who could have sold their graphics products
to Mac OS X owners if only they had X11 with Hardware OpenGL support available...
something that should have been free in the first place.
Did I make my point? or should I quote some more stuff?
I wish I could be playing the UNIX version of MAME right now
but it's too damn slow with only software OpenGL support... even with a 700MHz G4.
it sure sucks that I have a NVIDIA chip that I can't use because Tenon is cheating us.
lenny bruce
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