On Jul 15, 3:59 pm, johnjbarton <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 15, 2:23 pm, FoamHead <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Re: Active List
> > Looking at the "A Simpler Model" section
> > ofhttp://groups.google.com/group/firebug-working-group/web/firebug-user...,
> > I now fully understand how 1.4 tracks the active list. IMHO, having
> > this kind of documentation for a 1.4 full release would be _very_
> > helpful to users.
>
> Well what does that mean? The web page you point to exists. I've
> written a bunch of blog posts. I've replied to a billion newsgroup
> posts. What else?
I think enough explanation has gone on about it, but maybe a message
on getfirebug.com that says something like "Differences between 1.3
and 1.4" or "1.4 Migration Guide" or something along those lines that
points to a single detailed blog post about it would be worthwhile
(once 1.4 is released).
> > One potentially annoying feature of the new model is that all windows/
> > tabs of an activated domain will start on/activated. While this
> > feature can be useful for sites that require multiple tabs/windows,
> > the "Activate Same Origin URLs" that controls this feature needs to
> > default to Disabled, should be renamed to refer to domains instead of
> > URLs (since it is domain based, not URL based anymore), and requires
> > specific highlighting in the aforementioned release documentation.
> > IMHO having this Enabled by default is a *big* part of why people are
> > confused/annoyed with the new model.
>
> Based on other discussions in this group, I think the default is best
> this way.
Agreed, and previous Firebug versions (or, at least 1.3) didn't work
this way either. Having Firebug activate by domain by default is
absolutely necessary for the majority of Firebug uses.
> > Note: IMHO, FireBug 1.4 doesn't need a complex site manager,
> > Whitelist, or Blacklist. While I can see some use cases for these, 1.4
> > certainly should not include them. Simply allowing me some way to view/
> > prune the active list would suffice for 1.4 and perhaps 1.5.
>
> > Some misc replies:
>
> > > If you switch to GMail in the middle of a 1.4 debug session Firebug
> > > will suspend unless you have activated Firebug on GMail. This was true
> > > in 1.3 and continues to be true in 1.4.
>
> > This is not true if you have "Activate Same Origin URLs" enabled. If I
> > turn FireBug On for this very page and then open GMail in a new tab
> > while "Activate Same Origin URLs" is enabled, GMail cripples FireFox
> > while it loads with FireBug On. Again, this is why "Activate Same
> > Origin URLs" should start defaulted to disabled and you need to
> > clearly document "Activate Same Origin URLs"'s behavior.
>
> Yes, this is just another example of how activation issues are more
> complex than they seem.
And, IMO, is a perfect scenario for why domain blacklists are
necessary. I honestly am just interested to know if some line-by-line
blacklist of regular expressions for sites to ignore would be so
difficult to develop? It's not necessary for 1.4, but at least for
some future version? I have a couple sites that I develop that Firebug
causes to freeze up my browser, and since I use Firebug on the same
development domain as those sites, it's on for all of them and I
constantly forget to turn it off before I jump into those sites. The
only way to do that is to completely disable Firebug for the whole
domain, and then I have to turn it back on again and reload the page
when I go back to another site that I need it on.
> > > Based on our overall experience with 1.4, I plan to make one important
> > > change: we need to shorten the release cycle. 1.4 had a lot of UI
> > > changes and that caused users to be unable to react to individual
> > > changes, defeating our efforts to learn from their experience.
>
> > I don't know how long your dev cycle for 1.4 is/was, but IMHO the
> > complaints don't derive from the number of changes in one release.
> > Rather, the fact that users were forced to upgrade to a beta that has
> > little-to-no documentation on those UI changes combined with a default
> > setting that can easily cripple FireFox is what caused a lot of the
> > pain. I'm all for 3-6 month dev cycles, but please don't overlook the
> > root causes or this will occur next time.
>
> I have no control over that particular cause. I can cause a shorter
> dev cycle. Plus I don't completely agree with you analysis. By
> pushing out one change at a time we help users focus on the issue
> without mixing it up with other issues.
And I have my doubts that that is actually a source of pain for very
many people. When Firefox 3.5 initially came out, whitelisting was
done per page and not per domain.
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