Cari colleghi, seguo, per quel che capisco, il dibattito che si sviluppa.V'ha chi tende a impostarlo sul piano pratico, tecnologico e ingegneristico e chi invece predilige i suoi aspetti teorico-filosofici e scientifici in senso classico e tradizionale. La mia esperienza di economista che ha lavorato nelle Facoltà di Architettura e Ingegneria mi spinge a ritenere che la legge fondamentale della tecno-scienza e della conoscenza relative alle prassi esistenziali e ai domini cognitivi sia la legge dell'Informazione. Nella "Nuova economia" che ho elaborato hanno un ruolo paradigmatico fondamentale: episteme, teoria del valore (tendente a determinare le ragioni dello scambio tra venditori e compratori), sistemi complessi e ad-attivi non sempre integrabili (matematicamente), processi di trasinformazione. Desidero rassicurare coloro che fanno fatica a considerare opportuno approfondire gli aspetti filosofici della scienza economica che sono tra quelli (non molti per la verità) che hanno criticato l'aberrante teoria neoclassica o marginalistica e previsto sin da "Il giudizio di valore" (!971) la crisi speculativo-finanziaria nella quale siamo caduti senza, ancora, potercene liberare. Al solito, non penso lontanamente di assumere atteggiamenti arroganti e presuntuosi. Io sono un "poverino esponenziale" che ha scoperto tante cose senza averne merito, anche perché credo che la teoria sia la più pratica e più semplice della pratiche. Un abbraccio augurale, soprattutto per i giovani e/o per quelli che sono ricchi di anni di giovinezza nel Signore. Francesco Rizzo.
2014-07-15 20:27 GMT+02:00 Srinandan Dasmahapatra <s...@ecs.soton.ac.uk>: > Hi all, > > My take is that measure theory and sigma algebra had to be introduced by > folks like Kolmogorov, Lebesgue,etc to sort out issues of counting that > involves discrete and continuous variables in event space. However, that is > not what is required to address information as processed in physical and > biological processes. It's more to do with the basic tenets of what can be > distinguished by a process. The availability of colour is of little use to > the colour blind. Transfer of momentum upon collision of particles is > surely a casual process, but to determine the state, whether the substance > is a gas or a liquid, that bears no information. > > The example of wavelength limited information points to a short distance > cutoff .... that's discrete. > > Causality is generic. Useful information is quite contextual and specific. > Finding the relevant variables for description of the world (contextually > defined) is always the nub. > > Regarding Bialek's book, there are a large number of examples, ranging > from b visual systems responding to single photons, to fly embryos laying > down precise spatial boundaries for protein expression that can be counted > as a bit count even though the morphogen can be viewed as a continuous > signal. > > Cheers, > Sri > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: John Collier > Date:15/07/2014 06:19 (GMT+00:00) > To: fis@listas.unizar.es,"Pedro C. Marijuan" > Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS in Varna. Analogue Computation > > Dear fis members, > > I don't think that granularity per se is a > necessary basis for the application of > information theory to analog channels. In some > cases it might be, and I agree that studying the > relations between analog (continuous) and digital > (discrete) processes is likely to be both > interesting and productive. However the bandwidth > of an analog channel typically can be defined > even if there is no discreteness, for example if > the information bearing process consists of waves > so that the information bearing capacity is > limited by the wavelength. Virtually all physical > processes are cyclical in some way and thus have > a limited bandwidth. A countercase would be a > collision between particles that carries momentum > from one to another. I can't think offhand right > now (I just woke up), but I suspect that even in > such cases there is a finite amount of > information transferred. In any case, Shannon > discussed the bandwidth of continuous process channels. It is worth > looking at. > > John > > At 10:28 PM 2014-07-14, Srinandan Dasmahapatra wrote: > >I think I agree with Joseph Brenner > >here. Analogue computing is linked to real > >processes, while living beings find ways of > >transducing information out of dynamical states. > >The graininess that information theories rely on > >to define measures may be directly linked > >to physical limits in the information carriers > >(such as photons) or they might be limitations > >of the processing organism, extracting the > >sufficient "difference that makes a difference". > >And yes, there's often a too hasty rush to view > >analogue computing through pixellated perspectives. > > > >I'm not sure if this is well known to members of > >this list, but Bill Bialek's biophysics text is > >a profound reflection of the interplay between > >the analogue and the digital, with selection > >pressure forcing the sufficiency of the grainy > >"difference that makes a difference" towards a > >necessity for organisms, and hence pushing > >sensory systems close to the physical limits of information transfer. > >Cheers, > >Sri > > > > > >-------- Original message -------- > >From: Joseph Brenner > >Date:14/07/2014 18:12 (GMT+00:00) > >To: Pridi Siregar ,"Pedro C. Marijuan" > >Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es > >Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS in Varna. Analogue Computation > > > >Dear Colleagues, > > > >My first reaction to this suggested project is that the logic and > philosophy > >of information (where I am more comfortable) would have little to > >contribute. However, analogue computation is an area in which insights > from > >some complex theories of information might be useful. Analogue computation > >has always appeared to me, perhaps incorrectly, as being closer to real > >processes and therefore in principle better able to model their fuzzy, > >qualitative aspects. But in some of the articles I've seen, the authors > seem > >almost apologetic at not being able to claim the 'power' of the digital > >computer . . . > > > >Best wishes, > > > >Joseph > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Pridi Siregar" <pridi.sire...@ibiocomputing.com> > >To: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es> > >Cc: <fis@listas.unizar.es> > >Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 4:35 PM > >Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS in Varna > > > > > > > Thanks for the news Pedro. Sounds really exciting! As you might recall > I'm > > > interested in applications and I would be very keen on having a > > > brainstorming session that would include pure researchers and > > > application-oriented guys like me to explore technology transfer > > > opportunities. I don't know if this could be part of some (possible) > > > future agenda but I'm sure that business people may find it more than > > > worthwile to attend such meetings! I'm sure Plamen would be interested > > > too. > > > > > > best! > > > > > > Pridi > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Mail original ----- > > > De: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es> > > > À: fis@listas.unizar.es > > > Envoyé: Vendredi 11 Juillet 2014 14:41:42 > > > Objet: [Fis] FIS in Varna > > > > > > Dear FISers, > > > > > > The fis summer conference in Varna just took place 5-6 July --our 20 > > > years of activities were celebrated too, FIS 20th. Rather unfortunately > > > not many people attended: half dozen from Spain related to Juan > > > Castellanos and me (from Madrid and Zaragoza); and a few parties around > > > Krassimir from Bulgaria and Ukraine. But we had a great time > > > (discussions and exchanges, banquets, beach) and the place is really > > > beautifull & prices quite affordable. The idea, quite possible to > > > realize, is that every year that we do not have a plenary fis or isis > > > conference, we arrange a small summer school in Varna. > > > > > > Among the exchanges this year, the retinue of "basic concepts" around > > > information generated the most intense debate--is there any concept > > > prior to information? Joseph's contribution was also discussed by > > > Krassimir addressed to the Russian colleagues (in Russian). Computer > > > related ontologies, new schemes to handle Big Data, and brain > > > exploration through AI and EEG by a very advanced Egyptian team were > > > quite exciting discussion topics too. For the future, we think that > > > spinoff companies could be enticed to participate, developing new > > > products and taking profit from some of those initiatives. In any case, > > > the interaction with brilliant ITHEA colleagues from Bulgaria, Russia, > > > Ukraine, Armenia, Belarus, Egypt... is a valuable experience itself. > > > > > > And that's all! > > > > > > best wishes---Pedro > > > > > > -- > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > > Pedro C. Marijuán > > > Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group > > > Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud > > > Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) > > > Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X > > > 50009 Zaragoza, Spain > > > Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818) > > > pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es > > > http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Fis mailing list > > > Fis@listas.unizar.es > > > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Fis mailing list > > > Fis@listas.unizar.es > > > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Fis mailing list > >Fis@listas.unizar.es > >http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > > ---------- > Professor John Collier > colli...@ukzn.ac.za > Philosophy and Ethics, University of KwaZulu-Natal, Durban 4041 South > Africa > T: +27 (31) 260 3248 / 260 2292 F: +27 (31) 260 3031 > Http://web.ncf.ca/collier > > > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > >
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