----- Original Message -----
*From:* Joseph Brenner <mailto:joe.bren...@bluewin.ch>
*To:* Stanley N Salthe <mailto:ssal...@binghamton.edu> ; fis
<mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es> ; Robert Ulanowicz <mailto:u...@umces.edu>
*Sent:* Monday, September 08, 2014 6:01 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Fis] information.energy
Dear Stan, Bob and All,
This was a very interesting thread which I feel is worth coming back to.
First of all, I see the attitudes of Stan and Bob as not mutually
exclusive but complementary. What 'history' means in the 'dim region'
where it all began is pretty dim. Second, I agree with Stan's
formulation that information implies more than one entity. This suggests
to me that it, like energy, is a dualism, sharing some of the
dualistic properties of that dim region, somwhere between what is and,
to use Arthur Eddington's phrase, what is not.
Please do not ask me if and how the above idea can be proven. I consider
it as worth mentioning in the context of the foundations of information
science because it leaves the door open to the complexities and
contradictions of information you much earlier and later I have been
struggling with.
It is even possible that Peirce's notions of Firstness and Secondness
could be related to the above. The problems with these notions would be,
then, a consequence of his trying to keep them separate to avoid
contradictions, which he did not like.
Best regards,
Joseph
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Stanley N Salthe <mailto:ssal...@binghamton.edu>
*To:* fis <mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es>
*Sent:* Monday, August 04, 2014 4:21 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Fis] information.energy
Bob -- Note that I was pointing out "a sense" in which information
implies something different from energy -- especially in the context
of dialectics, which is the basis of Joseph's approach. There can be
no 'precipitated' energy (matter) without some kind of form,
realizing one or some constraints, but the concept of information
(its history) tends to imply interaction.
STAN
On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 11:13 PM, Robert E. Ulanowicz <u...@umces.edu
<mailto:u...@umces.edu>> wrote:
> Stanley N Salthe <ssal...@binghamton.edu
<mailto:ssal...@binghamton.edu>>
> 9:32 AM (0 minutes ago)
> to Joseph
> Joseph -- Commenting on:
> ...
> Is there not also a sense that information implies more than
one entity
> (sender-receiver, object-interpreter)? That too would tend to
align with
> the idea of energy being primary.
But Stan, you were one of the first to recognize the broader
nature of
information as constraint. It is also inherent in structure
(Collier's
"enformation"). Hence, wherever inhomogeneities exist, so does
information
-- an argument for a common origin. Bob
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