Dear John and FIS colleagues,
It was nice hearing your response. For technical reasons of the server,
_attachments are unwelcome_ (and often directly rejected). Send please a
web address where interested people can download your document. Also, it
is better if you send directly your response to FIS list
(_*fis@listas.unizar.es*_). About your content, I see a couple of
problems introducing "consciousness" at the cellular/molecular level.
For this term has a very definite meaning in the /ad hoc/ research that
is taken place during last decades. Conflating it with basic cellular
processes may not be necessary, given that other terms (more realistic
ones?) are available. For instance, I referred to self-referential
cognition. In any case, I agree that classical autopoiesis falls too
short of what is needed... Besides, about the cosmological relationship
with fundamental physics, is it a convenient step? Does it introduce a
premature closure in the bio-informational thinking process?
Best--Pedro
El 22/01/2018 a las 16:02, JOHN TORDAY escribió:
Dear FISers, I greatly appreciate Pedro's comments regarding my New
Year Lecture. I fully agree with his comment " That life's physiology
is based on the conjunction of a few principles: neguentropy,
chemiosmosis, and homeostasis-homeorhesis" applies to non-living
states too. I did not intend to make that statement exclusive, and if
it sounded like that Pedro's clarification is important. In fact have
just published a paper entitled "Quantum Mechanics Predicts
Evolutionary Biology" which is predicated on the hypothesis that
self-referential self-organization is the result of
the Singularity/Big Bang, Newton's Third Law of Thermodynamics that
every action has an equal and opposite reaction. That idea would apply
to both evolutionary biology and to balanced chemical reactions alike.
As for the question of the emergence of self-referential consciousness
'right at the beginning', I am in favor of that concept, as I have
expressed it in a recent paper, entitled "From Cholesterol to
Consciousness" (see attached) so I look forward to reading your
comments about that idea as well, since it has the potential to fully
integrate physics and biology in my humble opinion.
On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 4:01 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan
<pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>> wrote:
Dear FISers,
Going to the extreme, I think this year opening lecture can be
summarized in three contentious points.
1. That life's physiology is based on the conjunction of a few
principles: neguentropy, chemiosmosis, and homeostasis-homeorhesis.
2. That communication (cell signaling) is an essential factor in
the multicellular evolution towards complexity.
3. That epigenetic inheritance and the obligate recursion to the
unicellular state become the basis of a new evolutionary theory.
I disagree with point 1, as I think some nonliving states could
also be characterized by those principles (eg, chemical
cycles/hypercycles in marine vents, and other outcomes derived
from "energy flows"); besides, some previous "info stuff" has to
be in place. Then I completely agree with point 2, for signaling
is not just another characteristic of the cell, it is "the"
eukaryotic trait par excellence. And I am curious on how point 3
could be further substantiated... In this respect I recommend the
two papers that Bill sent to the list a few weeks ago. Do we need
to postulate the emergence of a form of "self-referential
cognition" right at the beginning?
Perhaps!
All the best--Pedro
El 09/01/2018 a las 19:05, Bill escribió:
Dear Pedro and Colleagues,
I have been following the thread of comments with great interest,
all of which have all been occasioned by John Torday's profound
insights about the nature of evolutionary development in light of
the importance of cell-cell signaling and molecular biology.
From the comments, it is clear that there is a strong impulse to
seek a means of integrating the role of symbiogenesis, viruses
and mobile elements, multilevel selection, niche construction,
genomic plasticity into a common narrative with an informational
perspective at its foundation.
In the spirit of that line of discussion, I am offering two
links that discuss evolution as an biologic information
management system. Some of this work shares direct commonality
with John's, since he and I are frequent collaborators.
http://www.mdpi.com/2079-7737/5/2/21/htm
<http://www.mdpi.com/2079-7737/5/2/21/htm>
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S007961071730233X
<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S007961071730233X>
Both of these articles can be considered as complementary to
Pedro's very fine article, 'How prokaryotes ‘encode’ their
environment: Systemic tools for organizing the information flow',
which is in BioSystems.
I am grateful to John for inviting me to participate in the forum
and to Pedro for encouraging me to share these manuscripts.
Best regards,
Bill
William B. Miller, Jr., M.D.
602-463-5236 <tel:%28602%29%20463-5236>
wbmill...@cox.net <mailto:wbmill...@cox.net>
--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno.+34 976 71 3526 <tel:+34%20976%2071%2035%2026> (& 6818)
pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
<http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/>
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-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
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