On 10/4/06, Martin Bähr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 01:47:41AM +0200, Axel Liljencrantz wrote:
> > But I strongly dislike moving the
> > users files. It's bad for your health.
>
> which is why it may be better now than later.
> it will only get worse.
Agreed. If this change is to happen, sooner is better than later.
>
> > Absolutely, but there is still _some_ resistance
> > against breaking compatibility.
>
> right, and the resistance will be growing.
>
> > I'm not yet convinced that the reasons given are enough motivation for
> > a break. I'm not even convinced yet that the layout you propose is
> > better than the one I propose.
>
> well, let me try:
> the real proposal (since the freedesktop effort has been pointed out)
> is to move everything to ~/.config/fish/
>
> ~/.fish/ (or ~/.fish.d/) would be tolerable.
>
> for the ~/.fish file, i'd request that you make it optional (make fish
> search in both places)
I don't like the idea of having two standard user configuration files
at all, I'm afraid. I'd rather have only ~/.config/fish/fish than
both.
>
> > Yes, I know, but I always assumed that the profile.d
> > part was a bashism
>
> possible. that would only support my argument as the main point is that
> profile.d is created because the original profile is unchangeable since
> other applications depend on it. such dependency is not the case with fish)
It's more a preparation for the near future where fish will be the
most popular commandline shell in the universe, and lots of packages
want to drop in little fish init scripts. World domination may come
sooner than you think, so it might be a good idea to have a direcotry
structure that can handle it.
>
> > Both of these would require more key strokes with a new filename.
>
> two extra keystrokes for ~/.fish{.d,}/config
> three for ~/.fish{.d,}/fish
> (and one more for both if .config/ is used)
>
> > Different usage patterns, but both are reasonable, I
> > guess. It's hard for me to see a solution that fits
> > both patterns well.
>
> true.
>
> > > > And everybody here uses emacs and trusts the judgement of the FSF
> > > > in all things, right? ;-)
> > > i use vi (and i even switched from emacs ;-)
> > > seriously
> > Yeah, the 'everybody loves emacs and trusts fsf' bit
> > was meant as a joke, sorry about that.
>
> uhm, i did get the joke, (why else would i add a ;-) followed by
> 'seriously' to indicate that the comment before was not serious.
> (i should have added a 'pretending to be offended' statement too ;-)
> (to bad you can't see the miscieveous smirk i have on my face right now :-)
Sorry, I'll try to be less humor impaired in the future. :-)
>
> > The .emacs.d directory is automatically created when
> > you enable certain emacs features. profile.d is
> > created automatically by a basic install of Fedora,
> > and very probably several other Linuxes
>
> not sure, debian and ubuntu do not have this.
>
> > (Linuces? Linuses?)
>
> the linuses would be linus and his evil twin. (noone has heard of a twin
> of linus, so if he exist he must be disguising as his brother and using
> his name, which would be rather evil)
>
> > The real question is if a .fish+.fish.d directory layout is stupid.
>
> given that i really want all config files of any application moved from
> my homedirectory to a subdirectory, my vote is on yes.
There seems to be a lot of support for that opinion. Might be the
right thing, I guess.
Here's a suggestion for how such a move could be made to run only once
for each fish user on the system:
Add the following to share/fish/fish:
if not set -q __fish_init_1_22_0
set -U __fish_init_1_22_0
if test -f ~/.fish -o -d ~/.fish.d
# Do the actual moving
...
end
end
One question for me, though, is should the user be asked if s/he wants
to move the file, should the user be told that the files ahve been
moved, or should fish just go ahead and do it. I know Martin said he
was in favour of the first, but while I understand and agree with his
argument that computers shouldn't second guess you too much, I also
hate computers with A.D.D.. When a program does something clever, it
shouldn't prompt or even inform the user of how incredibly clever it
is unless the 'something clever' is actually something potentially
quite stupid.
Converting the format of the init files can be either clever or
stupid. If we can be completely sure that the operation will suceed in
all but the most exceptional cases (such as read only ~), and also
that if the operation will not cause damage if it fails (unless you
redefine 'test' or 'cp' to 'rm -rf', we can do this by not deleting
the old files unless the new ones where created first), then I would
classify the conversion as something clever, in which case I see no
need of nagging the user with questions, since you always want to
convert the init files. There are just no non-silly cases where you
don't want your init files. If, on the other hand, the operation could
potentially fail, or even worse, if such a failiure could potentially
damage the init files, then I would argue that the conversion is
stupid and should probably not even be optional, it should not be done
at all.
That said, the user actually needs to know of the new file locations,
so I would suggest that when the files are automatically moved, a
large verbose message explaining the new file locations is shown in
this special case.
>
> greetings, martin.
> --
> cooperative communication with sTeam - caudium, pike, roxen and unix
> offering: programming, training and administration - anywhere in the world
> --
> pike programmer travelling and working in europe open-steam.org
> unix system- bahai.or.at iaeste.(tuwien.ac|or).at
> administrator (caudium|gotpike).org is.schon.org
> Martin Bähr http://www.iaeste.or.at/~mbaehr/
>
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Axel
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