fjordhorse-digest Sunday, December 16 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 328
In this issue:
Re: Denny Emerson's article
Fjord saddle
re: offspring of grabb
[none]
Re: Fjord saddle
Re: update - please note
Fjords and the Vikings
Re:Kinnickinnick lines was Re: how do read a pedigree
Re: the cost of Fjords
Re: Denny Emerson's article
Re: Fjord saddle
Re: Fjord saddle
Middleville Fjord Show
Re: Kinnickinnick lines was Re: how do read a pedigree
Sunday Night Fjord Chat
Re: Denny Emerson's article
Re: "Rideability" / Useability
See the end of the digest for information on how to retrieve back issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:03:03 -0800
From: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Denny Emerson's article
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Mike I think it was about two years ago when I bought Gunnar and talked to
Cliff's son who told me his father was in a nursing home. He recalled Gunnar
was one of their favorites which may speak against his aloofness today.
Altho he is better!!!!
Jean Walters Gayle
[Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter"
Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ]
http://users.techline.com/jgayle
Send $20
Three Horses Press
PO Box 104
Montesano, WA 98563
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:16:01 -0500
From: Anjer Farms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Fjord saddle
This message is from: Anjer Farms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi,
I too use a Wintec with a wide tree. One of my mares actually doesn't need
the wide tree so I change it. That is not as easy as advertised, but can be
done. I have the all purpose saddle, not the dressage.
I am extremely LAZY about cleaning tack so I think the synthetic is a
blessing!
Andrea
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:05:28 -0500
From: "Michele Bigelow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: re: offspring of grabb
This message is from: "Michele Bigelow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Stovar is a Grabb grandson. He is just the most cuddly lovebug I have ever
known! Maybe it is the Solar and sigrid cross?
Michele
I would be interested to know if anyone on the list has any offspring
of Grabb and Gulldua. At one time Mary Ofjord said she had a Grabb Stella
mare who was also "standoffish" not mean but did not like being fussed over.
She was the most unfriendly in the herd.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:34:05 -0800
From: "Denise Delgado" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [none]
This message is from: "Denise Delgado" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
sorry listers, i don't have karen's email address, so i have to send
this note to karen haines...... thank you for the delayed surprise. i
just got it today. denise
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:47:46 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Fjord saddle
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi, just wanted to add something to the fjord saddle discussion. Right after
getting Nina in November, we had the saddle fitter out for some of the others
at the farm. We have quite the wide variety of sizes, widths, breeding, ages
and make every attempt to ensure correct saddle fit for every one of our
"special" mounts. While the fitter was there she checked Nina's fit also.
At that time we had the wintek (forward seat) with changeable tree
on her using the very widest tree and it still wasn't wide enough to satisfy
the "fitter". What she told us was it may fit after Nina loses a little
weight and since she's such an easy keeper I'm hoping the fact she is working
will help to trim her a bit. Right now we use her with a bareback pad so as
not to hurt her back. A little scary the day I took her for a trail ride down
the BIG hill (we don't call the farm Rolling Hills Ranch for nothing) and she
decided to put her head down to eat. Thought I was going to slide right on
down her neck, had both feet out in front of me like I was putting on the
brakes (yeah big help that was). Didn't come off and laughed all the way
home.
Nina is what I believe is the draft type fjord. Looking at her papers
today her dam is Rinda and her sire is Fair Acres Gunnar - her registered
name is Nina III foaled on April 29, 1993, in MN. and bred by the Nelson's in
MN.
Nina is awesome working with my autistic students, always willing but
also patiently waiting for the correct direction from her rider. She
tolerates outbursts, bouncing and confused signals with a quiet attitude but
at the same time makes them tell her exactly what they want.
I really wish we had several more of her or rather of fjords-they are
certainly thrifty (a very important item to a nonprofit), have great feet and
solid build and a wonderful presence for those fund raising times.
Sorry this was long, I'm sure all the "old timer" fjord lovers have heard
this over and over.
Robyn in MD
STILL T-SHIRT WEATHER
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:49:55 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: update - please note
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Is this the price for both nights or just the price for one night?
Also do you have the phone number for this hotel?
Linda Syverson Kerr
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:19:14 -0800
From: "D T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Fjords and the Vikings
This message is from: "D T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I am most surprised to hear that Fjords are not horses that were used by the
Vikings. There are so many sites about Fjords that say they are the horse of
the Viking. To me if your ancestor was a viking horse then that doesn't make
you a viking but it does make you a descendant from a "viking" horse.
I have heard that for the past so many thousands of years the Fjord has a
pure line. Now how can that be if the Fjord came out of breeding and
in-breeding to become the Fjord that we know today?
No wonder I couldn't find anything on the Fjord as the horse of the viking.
Of course I still love Lars just as much but I am dismayed that so many
people talk of this but it isn't exactly as it is presented.
Deb
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:32:44 -0800
From: "D T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re:Kinnickinnick lines was Re: how do read a pedigree
This message is from: "D T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Pamela, Lars does have some of the same attributes. He has only been here
for about 6 weeks now. He found out that he could get to the hay in the barn
about his 3rd week here. The other horses have been here for months and had
yet to figuere this out. :-) Yes, he is very smart. He is also stong willed
but is coming to the realization that I am the alpha and nothing is going to
change that.
He is a love and enjoys being with you. His past owner told me he could
never work with Lars around as Lars would carry off the bucket or carry off
the hammer etc.
You mentioned not being happy with the line breeding or something like that.
What are you meaning by that? What makes this line breeding not as
satisfactory to you? I am eager to learn so pardon me for asking so many
questions.
Deb
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:53:12 -0800
From: "D T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: the cost of Fjords
This message is from: "D T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Vivian I will give you my thoughts on the cost of Fjords. Please no one
stone me :-)
I live in an area where there seems to be thousands of quarter horses. I am
out here in "cowboy" country. Now you can easily get a well-bred, gentle,
well-trained quarter horse from $2,000 and up. YOu can get a well trained
quarter horse for $1200-$1500 and up. Now these horses may not bring in
prize money (altough some do) but if you want a pleasant trail ride they
will do it for you. I have a 15-year old that I bought at an auction for
$900.00. He is a gem. Sweet, well natured and great for trail and pleasure
rides. I have a number of folks that can't believe I spent $4,000 on a 18
year old Fjord. They think I am nuts.
In my case, it depends on your perspective and what you want the horse for.
I wouldn't (this is where I may get stoned) pay $6,500 or more for a Fjord
gelding unless I just fell totally in love. There are other horses out there
that would fit the bill for me if all I want is a gentle, well dispositioned
horse for no other specific purpose than to do some pleasure riding.
Keep in mind that I am not a horse breeder but I am a "typical" person that
horse breeders and others in the Fjord community are trying to introduce the
Fjord to. I am not at all surprised to hear that people balk at certain
monetary amounts for some Fjords.
This is just my experience.
Deb
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 23:56:21 -0700
From: Alison Bakken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Denny Emerson's article
This message is from: Alison Bakken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi Jean,
I have a 23 year old mare that is a daughter of Grabb out of Rita.
Leika is friendly, but not as pushy or demanding of the attention as
other fjord. Some people may consider her standoffish.
Alison
Alberta
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 06:40:49 -0700
From: "TERRENCE GURIEL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Fjord saddle
This message is from: "TERRENCE GURIEL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Howdy,
I am still wondering if anyone has used or even seen the Fjord saddle
advertized on the Fjord Horse International web site. Looks like a version of
a McCellan crossed with an Aussie Outback with lots of hardware for attaching
bags for trail riding. They call it a Tracking Saddle and it cost 1051.00
Euros. Anyone know how much that is in US dollars?
Thanks
Terry
from wintery Colorado
- ----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 6:54 PM
To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com
Subject: Re: Fjord saddle
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi, just wanted to add something to the fjord saddle discussion. Right after
getting Nina in November, we had the saddle fitter out for some of the others
at the farm. We have quite the wide variety of sizes, widths, breeding, ages
and make every attempt to ensure correct saddle fit for every one of our
"special" mounts. While the fitter was there she checked Nina's fit also.
At that time we had the wintek (forward seat) with changeable tree
on her using the very widest tree and it still wasn't wide enough to satisfy
the "fitter". What she told us was it may fit after Nina loses a little
weight and since she's such an easy keeper I'm hoping the fact she is working
will help to trim her a bit. Right now we use her with a bareback pad so as
not to hurt her back. A little scary the day I took her for a trail ride down
the BIG hill (we don't call the farm Rolling Hills Ranch for nothing) and she
decided to put her head down to eat. Thought I was going to slide right on
down her neck, had both feet out in front of me like I was putting on the
brakes (yeah big help that was). Didn't come off and laughed all the way
home.
Nina is what I believe is the draft type fjord. Looking at her papers
today her dam is Rinda and her sire is Fair Acres Gunnar - her registered
name is Nina III foaled on April 29, 1993, in MN. and bred by the Nelson's in
MN.
Nina is awesome working with my autistic students, always willing but
also patiently waiting for the correct direction from her rider. She
tolerates outbursts, bouncing and confused signals with a quiet attitude but
at the same time makes them tell her exactly what they want.
I really wish we had several more of her or rather of fjords-they are
certainly thrifty (a very important item to a nonprofit), have great feet and
solid build and a wonderful presence for those fund raising times.
Sorry this was long, I'm sure all the "old timer" fjord lovers have heard
this over and over.
Robyn in MD
STILL T-SHIRT WEATHER
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 05:48:17 -0900
From: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Fjord saddle
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I think Catherine Lassesen had one and was a dealer for them. I saw it at
the 1999 Fjord show in Libby, Mt.
Sommer saddle co. makes one I think..perhaps thay make the saddle you're
thinking of. Check out:
http://www.sommer-sattel.com/saddle/Evolution_2000_eng/evolution_2000_eng.html
There is a US outlet, European Saddlery Associates, in New York.
Phone (905)628-4466
Jean in frigid Fairbanks, Alaska, -40F this morning.
>I am still wondering if anyone has used or even seen the Fjord saddle
>advertized on the Fjord Horse International web site. Looks like a
version of
>a McCellan crossed with an Aussie Outback with lots of hardware for attaching
>bags for trail riding. They call it a Tracking Saddle and it cost 1051.00
>Euros. Anyone know how much that is in US dollars?
>
>Thanks
>
>Terry
>from wintery Colorado
************************************************************
Jean Ernest
Fairbanks, Alaska
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:13:50 -0500
From: "Cheryl Beillard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Middleville Fjord Show
This message is from: "Cheryl Beillard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Just thought I'd add the newest show to the list . We had to cancel the Ontario
show this fall, too close to 9/11 for most of us to want to participate and of
course the border crossing would have been impossible for the American horses
that were scheduled to attend. But we ARE holding it for sure this fall ..
Pat's not on line much these days (and I shouldn't be .. too much work!) but I
know he'd want to make sure that people know about it.
Also wanted to confirm that Olaf Nyby is going to be out west this fall, as well
as further south .. and while his dance card is almost full for both the spring
series out east, and the western loop in the fall, if any of you on the Canadian
side hanker to organize a 2 day clinic in early June or October, let me know.
We had a wonderful session here last spring, most participants are coming back
for more May 4-5 (private lessons available May 3) .. he is wonderful to watch
and I found that the several lessons I have had have really given me confidence
to do more and more. And as he works more with fjords over here, I think he's
gaining a whole new appreciation for the breed because we ask so much more than
the average Norwegian farmer of our horses.
Re pricing, Vivien .. I have no problem with your analogy .. and what strikes
me even more, is that there are so few fjords in North America, by comparison,
that in addition to what we expect them to do, for often much less money than
one would expect to pay for that warmblood or TB prospect, the supply is so
limited, particularly of those who are trained sufficiently to show well against
other breeds.
And yes, Olaf and I are still working toward our surprise event in Ottawa in
May -- once I know it's really in the bag, I'll let you all in on it.
A dusting of snow, sun and not too cold .. it looks like we're going to have a
traditional Xmas here after all.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:41:25 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Kinnickinnick lines was Re: how do read a pedigree
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 12/15/01 8:39:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> You mentioned not being happy with the line breeding or something like that.
> What are you meaning by that? What makes this line breeding not as
> satisfactory to you? I am eager to learn so pardon me for asking so many
> questions.
>
There are lots of reasons why I don't like linebreeding. Although it seems
that this particular cross doesn't seem to have any real problems. One of
the things that has been mentioned, is that if you line breed, you can end up
with smaller horses. Skylark at 3 years old is a mere 13.2, whereas mom was
14.1. No biggie. She's a good filly, and is adequately sized. The vets
on the board can get into the genetics of line breeding better than I.
Something of interest has been brought up to me regarding two particular
bloodlines. And the little research I've done following up on it show me it
has some merit. If you cross the Torbjorn and Valebu lines, you can end up
getting horses with a lot of white on them. My Juniper has both in her
pedigree and has no white, but her full sister has a white blaze! And two of
her other relatives have stars. All have the crossing of Torbjorn and Valebu
in their pedigrees.
Before I learned this little tidbit, we bred Juniper to a stallion who does
have Valebu in his background. No white on the resulting filly!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:47:03 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Sunday Night Fjord Chat
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<A HREF="http://www.petsandvets.com";>PETSANDVETS.COM</A>
*NEW* Calendar of Events & Chats
Go to www.petsandvets.com main page and scroll down.
Click on Calendar
FJORD HORSE CHAT
SUNDAY NIGHT
DECEMBER 16th
9:00 pm to 10:00pm (Eastern Time)
<A HREF="http://chat.petsandvets.com";>CHAT ROOMS</A>
http://chat.petsandvets.com
<A HREF="http://www.petsandvets.com/forums";>MESSAGE BOARDS</A>
http://www.petsandvets.com/forums
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:57:04 -0800
From: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Denny Emerson's article
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Thanks Allison, if Grabb is dominant then maybe we can say it stemmed from
him. Always blame the male before checking out the facts!!!! :))
Jean Walters Gayle
[Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter"
Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ]
http://users.techline.com/jgayle
Send $20
Three Horses Press
PO Box 104
Montesano, WA 98563
- -----Original Message-----
From: Alison Bakken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com <fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com>
Date: Saturday, December 15, 2001 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Denny Emerson's article
>This message is from: Alison Bakken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>Hi Jean,
>
>I have a 23 year old mare that is a daughter of Grabb out of Rita.
>Leika is friendly, but not as pushy or demanding of the attention as
>other fjord. Some people may consider her standoffish.
>
>Alison
>Alberta
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 19:49:22 -0400
From: Arthur and Carol Rivoire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: "Rideability" / Useability
This message is from: Arthur and Carol Rivoire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia -
I've been busy all day getting ready to leave tomorrow for our annual
Christmas trip to New England to be with family.
And all day I've been hoping for a few minutes to comment on the Denny
Emerson article and, particularly, on Lori's comments about "Rideability".
What "Rideability/Useability" means to me is what "The Ideal Fjord" is all
about. The term applies equally to driving.
I think when the dressage and event people talk about "rideability",
they're referring to a horse that has a good mind and athletic ability.
All the loft and brilliance in the world won't win the class if the horse
is a nutcase.
There are few nutcase Fjords whose "flakeiness" gets in the way of athletic
ability. However, there are pleasant and willing Fjords that don't have
the basic ability to be a good ride or a good driving horse. By "good" I
mean, "competetive". - These Fjords do not have good "rideability" in
that sense.
There are also, (though not too many, I think), Fjords that have good
athletic abilities, but don't have the "forward" mindset necessary for
competition. These Fjords also do not have good "rideability" since it's
necessary to push them so much, and therefore, not a pleasant ride.
In my experience, this is not a big problem for Fjords as the ones that
have the physical ability (movement) seem to have the forward mindset.
Then there are the Fjords that might have possessed "rideability", but were
not brought along correctly, and therefore, never developed the
all-important WORK ETHIC. These are Fjords with a history of doing things
"their way", and boy, I'll tell you, those Fjords are tough, and difficult
to change.
In the Dutch IBOP Performance Tests (ride, drive & draft), they have a very
important section called "Willingness", which to me partially correlates to
"Rideability". I say "partially" because the Dutch award points for
"Willingness" even though the horse might not be particularly athletic.
"Rideability" in the sense we're talking about means a horse that's a
pleasure to ride and drive, and using that definition, the horse has to
have ability as well as willingness. It's not much fun driving a horse
that plods along on his forehand, and likewise for riding such a horse.
I always talk to people about a horse's "work ethic", which is similar to
"rideability". When I first saw Gjest in Holland in 1985, a stallion
handler told me that "Gjest had a great work ethic". And the man also said
that "Gjest passes on this trait." That impressed me, but frankly, I
didn't, at that time, know how important this characteristic is. Now I
know! It's very very important. A horse should want to "do the job".
Whatever that job may be - riding, driving, pulling a harrow, breeding.
A horse with a good work ethic is a pleasure to use - to ride, to drive,
even to lead in and out of the barn. It might seem strange to some people
to think that a horse has a "work ethic", and really cares about completing
a task, but it's true. Some horses have that ethic. Some, a lot stronger
than others, and those are the ones that become true partners to their
riders and drivers. -
What's that big word that means assigning human characteristics to animals?
Not the case here. Horses really do have work ethics . . . Some have
great work ethics, others a poor work ethic.
To sum up . . . My understanding of "Rideabiity/Useability" is a horse that
posseses the physical ability to do the job, the desire to do it, and the
willingness to "submit" or work with his rider or driver. That's a
pleasant horse to use. Actually, that horse is a JOY to partner with.
Regards, Carol Rivoire
Carol and Arthur Rivoire
Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II
R.R. 7 Pomquet
Antigonish County
Nova Scotia
B2G 2L4
902 386 2304
http://www.beaverdamfarm.com
------------------------------
End of fjordhorse-digest V2001 #328
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