Sounds like you havent really come across a project that needs a flex solution rather than a flash solution. Flex is a great tool for fairly specific implementations (RIA's, dashboards, etc etc), whereas flash is more general (but that comes at a price in terms of dev time).
And circa $1000 dollars is a lot less than $15000 per cpu, as per flex 1.5. thats why its classed as 'cheap'. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas Rønning Sent: 06 March 2006 13:24 To: Flashcoders mailing list Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] FF Seattle Report The point is Flex is a completely separate technology Adobe are actively pushing forward, and they're trying to get me in on it by teasing me with a preview of AS3 ;P Conspiracy! Aiee!! But seriously. It smacks of a form of early brand imprinting. I don't see Flex murdering AJAX or sparkle in the same way Flash has murdered SVG for online vector dominance, and as such i don't see it's worth my time without going full-time. "under $1000" is not necessarily cheap by the way. - Andreas David Mendels wrote: > Hi, > > Lots of stuff in this email, but I will just respond to this: > > "Flex takes what was getting good about AS and > >>implements it in a retardedly expensive solution that is of little >>interest to a whole bunch of us." > > > The Flex 2 SDK is free. Hard to call that expensive. Flex Builder 2 is "under $1000". Ditto. And FES 2 starts at free and scales up based on usage, but it is *not* required. > > -David > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of eugen >>pflüger >>Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 6:50 AM >>To: Flashcoders mailing list >>Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] FF Seattle Report >> >>right, andreas. >> >>eugen >> >> >> >> >>Am 05.03.2006 um 23:03 schrieb Andreas Rønning: >> >> >>>Glad you had a ball, but until Adobe stops ass-raping the FlashCom >>>community with bizarre licensing practises and the >> >>inability to make >> >>>statements with a straight face, i don't see how this merger is >>>positive at all. >>>All i see is further separation of the individual solutions >> >>Adobe got >> >>>a hold of with Macromedia, separations that were >> >>problematic to begin >> >>>with. Macromedia always had too many onions in the soup, >> >>and it looks >> >>>like that's just going to get worse. PDF online is a total >> >>aberration >> >>>now as it has always been; it's forte is in print content, >> >>not online >> >>>content, and every time i inadvertently hit a link that >> >>brings up the >> >>>Acrobat plugin, you can hear my groan blocks away. I don't see the >>>Acrobat relevance online tell you the truth (someone, >> >>please correct >> >>>me here if i'm totally missing the boat on some important topic). >>> >>>What you just described is precisely what i thought it'd be: Flash >>>keeps its footing as an animation platform with an anchor >> >>in the fast >> >>>and the frivolous, Flex takes what was getting good about AS and >>>implements it in a retardedly expensive solution that is of little >>>interest to a whole bunch of us. >>> >>>What i'd really like to see from an event like that, aside from >>>whizbang and promises, is an indication that Macromedia didn't >>>completely lose the plot when they were acquired. At the moment, >>>they're one of the toughest businesses to like out there, mostly >>>because of an inability to say ONE thing and subsequently stand for >>>it. Employees are lovely, but whoever makes the big decisions are >>>freaking me out. >>> >>>The idea of an Adobe/MM OS brings such immense and >> >>immediate terror to >> >>>my imagination that i'm not going to say anything else about that >>>topic. Ever, hopefully. >>> >>>I feel ever so slightly pistol-whipped by the sudden effort to push >>>Flex forward, leaving Flash in the dust. I assume this is >> >>some kind of >> >>>intercept vector of Sparkle or the growing interest in AJAX. >>>In fact, i'm so sore i'm going to rant a little bit. Pardon >> >>any french >> >>>in the following psycho-babble: >>> >>>I am a very hard working man. I put 9 to 12 hours into >> >>Flash every day >> >>>of the week. By Flash i mean animation, actionscript, flashcom and >>>audio work. I always work with concrete solutions in mind, and with >>>concrete budgets and concrete timespans. I have very little >> >>time for >> >>>dabbling, exploration or otherwise advancing myself along paths my >>>work doesn't naturally take me. FlashCoders, this list, was >> >>fine and >> >>>dandy up until Flex2, because i felt as though the focus of >> >>the list >> >>>ran in parralel to any problems i might be working on. I >> >>felt it was >> >>>worthwhile reading posts i had no idea what were on about >> >>because i'd >> >>>learn SOMETHING that might be applicable to a problem i'd >> >>run into in >> >>>the future, or alter my approach on a current problem. >> >>Since AS3 came >> >>>around, i've been hugely confused: >>>I have no idea how you guys have TIME to explore it. How >> >>Darron Schall >> >>>has time to create an AS3 VNC viewer is beyond me, or how Grant >>>Skinner can put together gModeler, or how any number of >> >>flash "guru" >> >>>types have time to put together x number of "exciting new >> >>applications >> >>>of the technology". Where do you find your god damn time and still >>>make a living guys?! >>>I work my ass off just meeting deadlines, and 9 out of 10 times the >>>project is etched in stone from the outset with regard to currently >>>existing techniques. The focus is on meeting a demand, not >> >>on creating >> >>>something dazzling and cool to put on a blog somewhere, and >> >>when Erik >> >>>Natzke, who i think does amazing work, manages to drop the "fresh" >>>notion that flash developers need to explore more to further >>>themselves in their craft, that pisses me off to no end. >>>Where. The. Hell. Does. That. Time. Come. From. >>> >>>AS3 in Flash right now is a cruel tease. We have no clear >> >>indication >> >>>of how it's implementation in Flash 9 will be, what it's >> >>implications >> >>>will be on the UI. All we know is that we can somehow get a >> >>head start >> >>>by getting into Flex and spend a bunch of time on non-deployable >>>projects so that we MIGHT hop aboard the AS3 train before it's too >>>late, and it slams into us with Flash 9 and all the guys that spent >>>their MAGICALLY APPEARING TIME getting into AS3 early get the clear >>>upper hand. >>> >>>So let's talk about motivation and demotivation, and how that whole >>>AS3 teaser is a big piece of steaming shit on my doorstep. >> >>I want to >> >>>get into it so bad i can taste it. I downloaded Flexbuilder, i read >>>tutorials, i tried it out a bit, but the more i touch it the more i >>>feel like i'm being derailed, that my attention is being >> >>removed from >> >>>what puts food on my table and roof over my head. But doubly, i get >>>the sense that when Flash 9 hits, the guys that are now >> >>unemployed, on >> >>>the dole, otherwise having the chance to spend real time on >>>self-education, are going to be infinitely more desirable as Flash >>>developers when that time comes around. >>>To put it all into perspective, since Moock's video of the tokyo >>>player 8 demonstration, almost everything i've heard from >> >>Macromedia >> >>>has made me feel stronger and stronger about the notion that this >>>segment of the industry is NOT something i want to be basing my >>>economy on, and that's a terribly sad notion, because i've been at >>>this Flash garbage professionally since i quit high school, >> >>a good 6 >> >>>years ago, and i really feel strongly about it. >>> >>>So what's the solution? Probably go through some bizarre freemason >>>ritual to get access to the time machine Grant, Darron and >> >>Erik use to >> >>>magically create time to keep up. As it is, i feel i was >> >>well poised >> >>>to become a truly proficient developer, but that the >> >>weirdly unfocused >> >>>direction Flash has taken is depriving me of my "right" >>>to evolve with the format in a natural way, and by natural i mean >>>without army issue narcotics that let me survive without sleep. >>> >>>And that, is demotivating as all hell. >>> >>>- Andreas, who isn't mad at the above mentioned developers, just >>>puzzled and envious >>> >>>Moses Gunesch wrote: >>> >>>>Man I had a great time and thought this conference really put the >>>>fire back into Flash. >>>>The keynote really showed how exciting and positive the >> >>Adobe merger >> >>>>is! >>>> >>>>They built an iTunes style app in flex2 in just a few minutes on >>>>stage, and they showed off Apollo, the next platform for >>>>desktop-based flash apps. >>>>Everything is >>>>changing at a lightning clip and I really saw what a huuuuge deal >>>>this merger is and how good it is really going to be for both of >>>>those companies and for all of us, Kevin Lynch has been put into a >>>>real position of influence which makes it happen. Adobe is >> >>really all >> >>>>about how to leverage the pdf and flash players but they reassured >>>>that there won't be any sort of attempt to combine these things >>>>directly, more like all sorts of interesting strategies to >> >>provide a >> >>>>useful platform using all these tools. Seems like in a few >> >>years they >> >>>>ought to try and build an OS of their own (is Google?). >> >>Also showed >> >>>>an astounding performance gain in As3, really impressive actually. >>>> >>>>The conference is on a ripping comeback now, this was the biggest >>>>crowd since the dotcom crash, at around 1500 attendees - >> >>everyone was >> >>>>super focused and attentive at the sessions, and the >> >>parties were all >> >>>>really fun and classy, including a catered party at Gameworks. >>>> >>>>Lynda explained to me that FF will no longer be west/east coast >>>>- just wherever they want. The next one planned is Austin >> >>-- going to >> >>>>be a real blast, that's a sweet town, and it coincides with the >>>>Austin City Limits festival. >>>> >>>>Really great material this year on Flex, AS3, Grant Skinner's talk >>>>was awesome, Tons of great stuff, got to see the guys from >> >>Homestar >> >>>>Runner and JibJab talk which was awesome. Fully 5 sessions dealt >>>>specifically with externalizing technology and how Flash >> >>can be used >> >>>>for this very easily now. I got lots an upbeat response for my >>>>session, heard Natzke's and Hillman Curtis' sessions were great... >>>> >>>>Over all this was an incredibly positive experience for >> >>me, it really >> >>>>brought back the love and excitement for being in such a >> >>vibrant and >> >>>>vital community. >>>> >>>>Moses >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com >>>>To change your subscription options or search the archive: >>>>http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders >>>> >>>>Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software >>>>Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training >>>>http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com >>>To change your subscription options or search the archive: >>>http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders >>> >>>Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software >>>Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training >>>http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>plugisto >>........................... >>eugen pflüger >> >>alexanderstr. 109 >>70180 stuttgart >> >>fon +49.711.6739797 >>mobil +49.177.6428272 >>e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>........................... >>http://www.plugisto.net >>http://itself.pmalc.de >>http://www.lifeperformance.net >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com >>To change your subscription options or search the archive: >>http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders >> >>Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software >>Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training >>http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com > To change your subscription options or search the archive: > http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders > > Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software > Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training > http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com -- - Andreas Rønning --------------------------------------- Flash guy Rayon Visual Concepts, Oslo, Norway --------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com _______________________________________________ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
