I've never been an advocate to either side of the debate, but don't you think you're being quite hypocritical in saying that the client aspect of Microsoft is evil, but that you still actively use the server products?
If you're looking for a reason to not go with Silverlight, than go on the tried and true backup that no matter what Microsoft says, it will never be as flexible and well adopted as Flash already is. Adobe has the client market covered between Acrobat and Flash, so I won't be losing any sleep anytime soon. !k _____ From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Thompson Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:50 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Adobe People, Save me from Silverlight! (Microsoft's Legal Record) Here is a big reason why NOT to go with Silver-Light: I am Robert D. Thompson. Here is Federally Published public record of something, http://www.fedcirc.us/case-reviews/thompson-v.-microsoft-corporation-4.html I will not discuss the above public record, but will discuss why I believe it would be Historically of poor judgment to trust Microsoft with a Client side technology, including it's lost to SUN Microsystems for licensing and then hacking it's client-side technology, and other cases such as Stac Electronics. Steven Ballmer went to Country Day Prep academy here in my homestate of Michigan and I know several people there through individuals I've known through Track and Field and running in the Junior (high-school level) TAC national championship team with through regionals. I've also had an attorney who has gone to that same school at the same time as Steven Ballmer. - OpenGL is standard, Microsoft will force DirectX even though it's losing ground to OpenGL among the vendors. It will find ways to tie into the API and hack things up like they did in the SUN MICROSYSTEMS's Java Hack - can you imagine; these people at Microsoft actually licensed Sun's Java and got the source code to it and hacked it up so it wouldn't run on Windows IE well without bugs. Even Rick Segal has posted comments after being quietly abandoned by Microsoft after the "Steve Barkto Incident" (google that) as saying that Microsoft hi-jacked the efforts of both Apple's QuickTime and Blue Mountain software through unethical methods and when the court asked for source code record, Microsoft said it was not available and Segal argued this was ridiculous (google "Blue Mountain v Microsoft". I talk about State Attorney generals who have had much harsher things to say about MS than anyone on my site www.ActiveCommunity.com - Microsoft is losing ground to Apple, to OpenGL (look into Papervision 3D, it's amazing and can run on ALL PLATFORMS; MS will limit other platforms to a viewer only and it's been buggy as far as I've heard). - I am a .NET Programmer who specializes in using ActionScript 3.0 and integrating it with SQL Server 2005 using stored procedures. I will only use Microsoft products on the server because, (a) I still like the server but will never invest in trusting Microsoft for ANY Client end software as they will betray you in the end; don't do it, you will lose to them if you trust them, (b) I have found a Gold Certified Microsoft provider who, in contrast to Microsoft, keeps their integrity intact. Use what Microsoft has to offer, but if you are to deploy anything that will be distributed on a client end -- I can ensure you that your efforts should consider the legal record of Microsoft that involves, Patent Theft (Stac Electronics), Bad-Faith hacking of licensed code (SUN Micrososystems), Bad-Faith Funding of anything that will pull down competitors (see Funding and Astroturf campaigns and research the SCO v IBM legal history). You've been forwarned; DO NOT TRUST MICROSOFT *EVER* on the Client side, or you will lose your intellectual property and your initiative if you can ever believe the constant truth that "He who ignores History is bound to repeat the Mistakes of the past". -r "Merrill, Jason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Here is a lot written by Jesse Warden on Silverlight from his Flash/Flex perspective: http://jessewarden. <http://jessewarden.com/category/silverlight> com/category/silverlight Also, here is a list I compiled last summer after speaking with a Silverlight engineer. Some things in Silverlight may have changed since then, hope this helps some. Pros Integrates very very well with .NET/Visual Studio Programming in C#, VisualBasic, Javascript, Python, or Ruby - CLR (Common Language Runtime) Easier for .NET developers to start developing for than Flash Microsoft deep-pocket backing and product integration All code remains external, no republishing after coded update like you do with Flash Runs on Mac OSX, Windows XP and Vista Cons Requires programming in C#, Javascript (inconsistent across browsers), VisualBasic, Python, or Ruby Not geared towards multimedia artists, learning community Not supported or pushed by the bank, virtually no market penetration outside the bank Not a mature product, not market-tested Does not integrated with Adobe's creative design tools Is not currently supported on Cell phones and several PDAs Does not support Flash media (.swf or .flv) i.e. Captivate or Articulate Visual experiences demo'ed so far are not nearly as impressive as Flash Silverlight is geared more towards RIA development, so it's more of a Flex competitor than standard Flash Does not run on older Mac OS, Linux and older versions of Windows Does not support alpha channel video CD and local drive Silverlight runtime not available as publishing option Expression Designer, Expression Blend used to design Siliverlight applications are immature tools and lack many features compared to CS3 products Not as easy to develop for those who are not familiar with .NET, or Javascript Flash video is primary format of major video sites like YouTube and Google Video, not Microsoft WMV Unfamiliar design environment for Flash developers to migrate to Does not immediately stream - requires XAML to parse first. Some Flash developers say Siliverlight has 80% fewer features than Flash. While this number may be inaccurate, a Silverlight rep did confirm Silverlight has fewer features than Flash runtime. No free opensource development options No 3D possible (Flash has Papervision or Sandy 3d and other Opensource 3D Libraries available) No deep-linking possible yet h.264 Video support Javascript only development right now - (all Visual Studio languages coming soon) Jason Merrill Bank of America GT&O L&LD Solutions Design & Development eTools & Multimedia Bank of America Flash Platform Developer Community _____ From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nate Pearson Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:41 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Adobe People, Save me from Silverlight! I'm a flex developer who just joined a .NET development group. We make internal apps but are going to grow our group and have an e-commerce subset. Everyone on my team has seen my flex apps and they understand the power. BUT, they want to do a formal review of Flex vs Silverlight before we buy a bunch of adobe software and go down that path. Included in the debate is Photoshop vs Expressions (I know I know). Although I love .NET for the back end I think that flex should be used for our RIA solutions. I was hoping that the fine hard working folks at Adobe already have a document that clearly lays out the advantages of Flex over Silverlight. If so, I would greatly appreciate it being sent to me. Here are some things that people are concerned about. Sharepoint integration (this is a big #1) SEO Workflow updates (designer/developer) Is licensing available? Flash player 9 adoption Although I know the answers to most of these questions I think any document from Adobe would say it better than I could. My boss is flying to Redmond this afternoon for a meeting with Microsoft. Although it's not about Silverlight he is going to ask them about it and I'm sure they will try to give him some kool-aid. I'm making a Flex introduction presentation for developers today for a meeting on Thursday. So speed on this request is greatly appreciated. Thanks so much, please save me from programing in silver light and expressions for the next 5 years. -Nate _____ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http:/www.yahoo.com/r/hs> your homepage.
