Hi Allison, Just to let you know the first one already has a bug filed for it, Fluid-1334 (http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-1334).
Feel free to leave comments on the issue. Currently the priority is set to minor. Should it be made higher? Thanks Justin On 10-Sep-08, at 4:03 PM, Allison Bloodworth wrote: > Hi all, > > Sorry for the delayed response--I was having some trouble testing > this because the link for the uPortal version of the layout manager > Gary references below seems to be broken. However, the version of > uPortal linked off of build.fluidproject.org worked for me: > http://build.fluidproject.org/fluid/sample-code/reorderer/portal/portal.html > . > > First, thanks very much Paul for making this problem concrete. I > agree with you that the drop target should key off of the entire > object, not just the pointer. Thinking back, I actually think some > of the difficulties our users ran into during testing (e.g dragging > a portlet *really* with their mouse far to get it to drop) may have > had to do with this. > > While checking this problem out, I also ran into another related > problem with pointer position which may require the entering of > another bug or two (though I think one or both of the bugs *may* be > in uPortal?). > > If the calendar portlet starts on the left column, and I grab its > "handle" on the right side near the red X, the screenshot below > shows what happens. *As soon as I pick it up*, it shrinks and the > pointer sort of floats in mid-air, not attached to the avatar at > all. I originally thought this only happened when moving a portlet > from a larger to smaller column (hence that is what my screenshot is > of), but realized that the portlet shrinkage actually occurs as soon > as you pick up this portlet, even if it remains in the left column. > This makes the interaction very clunky. > > So I think there are two new bugs: > > 1) If the portlet shrinks when picked up, the avatar should shrink > towards the pointer so it remains "attached" to the pointer. > 2) When a portlet is picked up it should remain the size of the > column its in and only re-size when it moves to a smaller column. > > Gary & Paul (& others), do you think either of these are uPortal > issues? Does it make sense to enter them as bugs (either for uPortal > or Fluid)? > > Cheers, > Allison > > <LayoutCustomizerPointerBug.jpg> > On Sep 10, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Paul Zablosky wrote: > >> Hello Justin, >> Yes, it will be interesting to see how the users react. I suspect >> that the current behaviour accounts for some of the users' responses >> during early testing. >> Thanks and regards, >> Paul >> >> Justin wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> I have actually filed this as a bug Fluid-1335 >>> (http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-1335). >>> >>> It would be interesting to see which implementation users prefer. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Justin >>> >>> On 9-Sep-08, at 2:55 PM, Paul Zablosky wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you Gary. One of the problems with this issue, is that we >>>> don't really have a way to do comparison testing with users. Now >>>> that we're discussing this in the open fluid-work list, I can put a >>>> question directly to the developers: >>>> >>>> Would it be possible to create a version of the reorderer that sets >>>> the position of the drop target not with reference to the pointer >>>> position, but with reference to the centre of gravity of the >>>> avatar? >>>> Since the avatar and pointer are locked together during the drag, >>>> this would seem to me to be a simple fixed translation of >>>> coordinates, but I don't know enough about the implementation >>>> details >>>> to guess if it's easy or difficult. Anyway, if we had such a >>>> thing, >>>> we could easily do user testing to find out which they preferred: >>>> targets that move with the pointer >>>> targets that move with the centre of the avatar >>>> I'm suggesting using the centre as tracking point, simply because >>>> it's the most obvious alternative to following the cursor position. >>>> There may be other loci that could be considered. >>>> >>>> I'll respond to Gary's responses within his message below. >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> Gary Thompson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Paul, >>>>> >>>>> I'm cc'ing fluid-work so everyone can appreciate the questions and >>>>> digest the responses. >>>>> >>>>> Great questions. The goal is to create an intuitive, elegant >>>>> design, so questioning the behavior is warranted if it seems to >>>>> not >>>>> match your expectations. >>>>> >>>>> As Colin mentioned, the Reorder - and thus the Layout Customizer - >>>>> are currently moving targets. The target movement was initiated >>>>> from the user testing done on the first integration environment, >>>>> which reported unusable response and behavior. Refer to the user >>>>> testing results: >>>>> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/x/2Ys7 >>>>> >>>>> Three comments: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Context is king. >>>>> How drag and drop behaves will be specific to context. The >>>>> examples >>>>> on the Layout Customizer springboard: >>>>> http://build.fluidproject.org/fluid/fluid-components/html/LayoutCustomizer.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ...actually represent something closer to list reordering, which >>>>> by >>>>> context will have a different behavior. What most currently >>>>> represents the Layout Customizer, is the uPortal integration here: >>>>> http://build.fluidproject.org/uPortal/render.userLayoutRootNode.uP >>>> I totally agree that context is king. That's why I tried out all >>>> the >>>> different examples of the reorderer on the demos page. I found >>>> that >>>> I had the same difficulty with all of them, which led me to think >>>> that the problem was below the application level. >>>>> >>>>> 2. The grab handle can be defined. >>>>> And is defined to be just the portlet title bar in the Layout >>>>> Customizer integration in uPortal (rather than the whole portlet). >>>>> This should help alleviate the confusion of location of the drag >>>>> avatar to cursor, though we may find in further testing that >>>>> that is >>>>> still an issue. >>>> Yes, I noticed this. It's harder to demonstrate with the Layout >>>> Customizer because the grab area is smaller. But you can show the >>>> effect by grabbing at the left or right end of the grab area. The >>>> behaviour of the drop indicator is more consistent with a limited >>>> grab area, but it still feels strange if the grab area is at the >>>> edge >>>> of the element I'm grabbing. >>>> >>>> This of course gives us another thing to test. Do users prefer to >>>> have a large area where they can grab an element, or should it be >>>> limited to a specific "grab me here" region? >>>>> >>>>> 3. The drag avatar may need to be minimized in uPortal. >>>>> The size of a portlet in uPortal is highly variable, and user >>>>> testing has already uncovered the unwieldiness of large portlets >>>>> being dragged in a preview mode. It may turn out that for >>>>> uPortal, >>>>> we revert to an earlier design that more closely resembled the >>>>> Yahoo >>>>> behavior at the time - a small grey box as the drag avatar, and a >>>>> non-preview, colored line as the drop indicator. >>>> A smaller avatar might help, but I still think it skirts the >>>> issue of >>>> where the drop indicator appears. >>>>> >>>>> Gary >>>>> >>>>> Paul Zablosky wrote: >>>>>> I have been playing with the reorderer examples on the daily >>>>>> build >>>>>> page <http://build.fluidproject.org/> and getting a feel for the >>>>>> behaviour of the avatars and the targets. The behaviour is not >>>>>> quite what I expect as I move things around, and I'm wondering >>>>>> whether I'm taking an idiosyncratic view of things. The >>>>>> problem is >>>>>> that the drop target doesn't seem to appear where I expect it to. >>>>>> I position the avatar squarely over where I want to move the >>>>>> element, and yet the target is one position off to the left or >>>>>> right (or above or below). I have to move the avatar farther >>>>>> than >>>>>> (I feel) should be necessary to get the target to appear where I >>>>>> want it. It makes the whole interaction sort of weirdly sticky >>>>>> for >>>>>> me. What it comes down to is that I feel I should be able to >>>>>> predict where the target appears, and I can't. At first I thought >>>>>> that this was just a performance issue, but now I know what >>>>>> causes it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here's the explanation. What I'm trying to do is position the >>>>>> avatar where I want to drop the element, but the target isn't >>>>>> following the avatar. The target follows the /pointer/. So >>>>>> with a >>>>>> fairly large avatar -- such as a portlet window, or a multi-line >>>>>> list element, it makes a huge difference where I grab the >>>>>> element. >>>>>> If I grab the top edge of the list element, the target will >>>>>> appear >>>>>> in relation to the top edge of the avatar. If I grab the bottom >>>>>> edge, the target follows the position of the bottom. >>>>>> But I never pay attention to where I grab the thing. My eyes are >>>>>> tracking the outline of the avatar, and I sort of expect the >>>>>> target >>>>>> to appear where I have the avatar centred -- and that's not >>>>>> happening. >>>>>> >>>>>> So it raises the question in my mind. Is it just me, or do >>>>>> others >>>>>> have the same experience of the movements of the screen objects >>>>>> not >>>>>> quite following their expectations? >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course my experience means nothing. I know that we can only >>>>>> settle an issue like this with user testing. So here's the real >>>>>> question: Do users have the idea that they are influencing the >>>>>> position of the drop target by the location of the avatar, or do >>>>>> they have the feeling they are shoving it around with the >>>>>> pointer, >>>>>> while ignoring the outlines of the avatar? And do we have any >>>>>> user >>>>>> testing results or research data (possibly from some outside >>>>>> source) that can tell us this? >>>>>> >>>>>> I spent a little time this afternoon trying to train myself to >>>>>> be a >>>>>> better drag-and-dropper, using the four reorderer examples >>>>>> <http://build.fluidproject.org/> -- either centring the pointer >>>>>> carefully on the element I'm grabbing, or following the pointer >>>>>> image rather than the avatar outline. I'm learning, but it >>>>>> doesn't >>>>>> feel quite natural. >>>>>> >>>>>> Comments? Am I marching to a completely off-the-beat drummer >>>>>> here? >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards to all, >>>>>> Paul >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> fluid-work mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> fluid-work mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work > > Allison Bloodworth > Senior User Interaction Designer > Educational Technology Services > University of California, Berkeley > (415) 377-8243 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _______________________________________________ fluid-work mailing list [email protected] http://fluidproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fluid-work
