RE: @F: Rally for Freedom

Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:43:35 -0800

Title: Message
 
I think the core issue you have to look at here is - is there ever a time when a "preventative strike" is really appropriate?
 
Its easy to know when to wage war when your only trigger is someone attacking you... the 1991 Gulf War had UN backing because the world saw Saddam as the aggressor. And no one seemed to squawk much about the recent battles in Afghanistan, pointing to 9/11.
 
The big difference with the current conflict in Iraq is that the US fired first. This wasn't a "hot" war until the bombs rained down on Baghdad.
 
 
R.
-----Original Message-----
From: mark winder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 11:04 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: @F: Rally for Freedom

Interesting points, Gord.  I think one of the most difficult things to come to terms with in this conflict is the strong notion of right and wrong, for or against.  Are we as a people against Hussain?  Probably, we're all in agreement that he's just the sort of chap we'll leave off the invitation to the BBQ list.  But what about the other areas in this conflict?  What about the spreading of "The Western Ideal"?  What about oil?  How do all these things interact?  How do they sit with us?  Is it right for the US to go in there and do what its doing based on economic factors?  Maybe yes, maybe no?  on a macro scale, it might seem wrong.  On a scale where we look at our paycheques that come from an economy that's very closely linked to the US, maybe its not-so-wrong. 

For me, the mental exercise in this whole conflict has been dealing with the various shades of grey - and how various people have tried describing them as either black or white, true or false, whatever's convenient to their agenda.  

Do I have any conclusions?  No.  Am I confused about all this?  Yes.  Do I think that Gord is "just a liberal/lefty/pinko subjective relativist who is clearly an Iraqi sympathizer for even thinking such thoughts"?  Absolutely!! ;oP


- Mark

--
Mark Winder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>From: Gordon Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: @F: Rally for Freedom
>Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:17:05 -0800
>
>WAR IS PEACE
>FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
>IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
>- Orwell, 1984
>
>Has anyone read this book recently? Seriously. I picked it up the other
>day, to read it again -- just felt the time was right. First time I've
>read it since university. It's frightening some of the stuff in there.
>Frightening because of its relevance these days.
>
>You're either with us or against us, right? I love how the rhetoric of
>the Bush regime has managed to polarize everything into a black & white
>(no racial undertones there Pablo), good vs. evil debate. How can anyone
>say they are against the eradication of tyranny? And yet, somehow, if
>our government decides not to support the USA by deploying Canadian
>troops to invade a foreign country who has not explicitly threatened or
>harmed us (different than identifying them as a "threat" or a "risk" in
>the industrial-military lingo du jour), we are seen to be yankee-hating
>dictator-sympathizers.
>
>How many people are going to agree that Saddam is a good guy and should
>be left in power in Iraq? Uh, not many. Since when did that become our
>job to knock of bad guys in countries half-a-globe away?
>
>How many people think that a full-blown military invasion under the
>banners of Freedom, Courage, Peace, apple pie, Democracy, and all things
>good about consumerism and the "free world" is a good thing?
>Categorically? Yes or No. For or Against. Us or Them? Can you take an
>issue like this and give it any kind of fair treatment by saying you are
>either for or against?
>
>Or am I just a liberal/lefty/pinko subjective relativist who is clearly
>an Iraqi sympathizer for even thinking such thoughts?
>
>And what exactly does "True Peace" mean anyhow? I mean really. Not to be
>confused with the other peace (you know, the False one).
>
>Gord.
>
>
>
> > Leah Costello wrote:
> >
> > Hope to see some of you there!
> >
> > Freedom takes courage!
> >
> > Stand With America and the Free World
> >
> > Against Terrorism and for True Peace!
> >
> > RALLY
> >
> > FOR
> >
> > FREEDOM
> >
> >
> >
> > SUNDAY MARCH 30, 2003.
> >
> > 2:00 PM
> >
> > American Consulate
> >
> > 1095 West Pender St, Vancouver BC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Those who disagree with the official position of the Canadian
> > government on the war in Iraq are asked to join us for a peaceful
> > rally to show support for American efforts to eradicate tyranny.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please bring American and Canadian Flags if possible.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sponsored by FRIENDS OF AMERICA
> >
> > For further Information, please contact us at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Name: Rally for Freedom.rtf
> > Type: WINWORD File
> > Rally for Freedom.rtf (application/msword)
> > Encoding: quoted-printable
> > Download Status: Not downloaded with message
>
>___________________________________________________________
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