On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 7:20 AM, frank <[email protected]> wrote: > Alejandro Garcia wrote: > >> Which one of the following systems is more complex? (look at the attached >> image) [...] Most peoplo would say that System A is more complex than >> system B. [...] But other people would say that System B is simplier. >> [...] >> > > I assume here you meant to write "Most people would say that system A is > simpler", otherwise the "But other people" would make no sense. > > Yes. I meant to say that system A seems simplier.
> And here is where side effects come along if each one the nodes doesn't >> have any side effects. [...] Then system B is much "simplier" ie easier to >> know how it will behave given an input. >> > > Sorry, but could could please elucidate your meaning? > > With "side effects", do you mean intra- or inter-node side effects? > > 1. If side-effects are not allowed to propagate from node to node, then I > don't see how system B can be simpler, except if you just go on to claim > that > the nodes in system A are more complex internally. In this case your image > is > worthless, because there is nothing in it to indicate that fact. > > That is the point, I mean in any system the side effects of a node affect the other nodes in a system. That is why in a factory one one machine center goes down the whole Assembly Line. I know you can put buffers to afford some variability but I meant to say that the side effects always propagate. > 2. If your side effects are allowed to propagate from one node to another, > then your image is worthless, because it omits to show those connections. > > To sum it up: Either system A is simpler (fewer nodes, no interactions), or > the image you sent is in some essential way misleading. > > Again that was the whole point that for some people system A was simplier because it is easier to describe. fewer nodes no interactions. But for other people system B is simplier because is easier to know given an input how the whole system output will be. Now let me go and try to exemplify it. In the image each (circle) is a simple machine that: a) Can have just two values true or false. b) if it gets an input it just sets that input as its value and forwards it. If the arrows are connected by an arc means logical AND if the arrows are not connected and they arrive to the same node it means logical OR. Now given those rules: If in system A I set one of the nodes to TRUE I don't know the state of the whole system. This system is harder to know it has 16 possible states (2^4) If in system B I set bottom node to TRUE then turns out all the nodes have a value of TRUE. If I set that node to FALSE then all the nodes have a value of FALSE so in essence it has 2 possible states. And that is it. It is easier to know what the whole system B is going to be in any given time than it is to know system A. Therefore simplier. > Regards, frank > > _______________________________________________ > fonc mailing list > [email protected] > http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc > >
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