On 21/12/2010, at 4:51 AM, Steve Wart wrote:

> So is there anything interesting from a FONC perspective in mobile
> devices? It may be a coincidence that Apple's success with the iPhone
> is to a large extent due to a Smalltalk-derived C dialect, but most
> people who know Smalltalk would agree that it's more like C than it is
> Smalltalk. Apple's certainly made it clear that they've got little
> appetite for dynamic languages on iOS (other than web apps), but the
> reality is that keyboard-less mobile devices are not suitable for
> programming activities at all, from any manufacturer.

I wouldn't really agree with this. Have you used Objective-C? I code in it 
daily, and Apple's frameworks and particularly the design patterns baked 
inherently into those frameworks make it so Smalltalk-like that I'm rather 
surprised you would say something like this. It *is* a dynamic language 
(assuming I know what you mean by dynamic here) - in other words, it uses live 
realtime message-sending.

If you look at what Apple are doing with Grand-Central Dispatch, LLVM and their 
other realtime optimisation-focussed frameworks, you begin to see that they're 
very focussed on getting as much performance as they can from these devices, 
hence the focus on Objective-C (which is as close to smalltalk as we can get 
while being highly portable and optimised at the same time).

I'd wager that just like switching architectures from PowerPC to Intel, if 
there was something better and more efficient, Apple would most likely have no 
issue or difficulty with switching to something else. This is kind of 
irrelevant, though, to FONC, because FONC obviously needs to be pure.

Other interesting things are happening in other places... have you seen what 
Gemstone have done (is doing) with their implementation of their persisted 
distributed Ruby (which sits on top of their Smalltalk implementation). If any 
artefact FONC brings is relevant, it will obviously need to address persistence 
properlly...  (The not-yet-finished ruby implementation is at 
http://www.gemstone.com/products/maglev)

I'm not actually sure how relevant something that doesn't "join in the 
conversation" rather than try to reinvent EVERYTHING is, though... what I mean 
by that, is Apple have got very very good at layering their architecture with 
replaceable bits... I think this approach is infinitely useful, because it 
means if any single piece needs fixing, replacing or modification, then it can 
be re-tooled relatively easily and quickly. It's proper objected-orientedism. 
(For want of a better word).

The fact that FONC have built O-META as a base artefact brings me immense 
excitement in relation to this, because O-META couldn't be a more functional 
implementable piece in the puzzle to the existing context of coding... the 
potential here is huge... being able to plug in various pieces of code in 
various languages is an amazing idea. (Assuming I'm properly interpreting what 
its potential is, though).

Julian.
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