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Also, to clarify a little more....I completely
agree with Darin, there is likely to be more information than just simply a SATA
=1 bit. But this would allow an updated driver to at least identify
and handle accordingly. It needs to start somewhere. I am not sure
why there is so much resistance to this, doesn't seem like that big of deal to
me. I think it would have been a great JUST IN CASE thing to do when SATA
was first introduced, but everyone was so hung up on the "oh, its 100%
transparent to the driver" they seemed to be afraid to admit that maybe an
incompatibility might arise down the road. I know T13 is not supposed to
be the ones who define an interface, only to document what everyone has
agreed to be a standard. But is saying, "it has been our
experience......have you considered......" a bad thing? And is suggesting
that a bit be added to indicate a device type really beyond the scope of this
group?
I don't think it's any secret that most device
folks add secret JUST IN CASE bits into there internal config information that
can be modified with some proprietary tool to enable and disable things within
the device firmware in case they aren't quite working yet. Maybe some
folks are even not resetting the device to its default state after COMRESET to
resolve that previously discussed issue (UDMA-DMA hang). I'll bet the
ATAPI-7 spec has not been changed to indicate that this may occur
either.
In all fairness to some of us who are
not involved in the day to day development behind the scenes information,
we must rely on what we see on this board or hear via the rumor mill.
There is very little information passed on this board. I am not a SATA
member so I don't know what is discussed on that board. Maybe you guys
have daily conversations about this sort of thing on the SATA board, I really
don't know.
I apologize if I seem a little ignorant or
misinformed, but in a sense, I guess I am. Maybe I need a SATA=0
bit.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:46
PM
Subject: Re: [t13] Microsoft's answer to
how to identify SATA which is really a bridged PATA
Darin,
To clarify my statements, I guess i wasn't as clear
as I thought.
> Define your idea of what
a "real" Serial ATA device is.
As in serial ATA interface build onto the device
where the device firmware would control the IDENT data versus a paddle card
SATA to PATA adapter. This would be where the paddle card would have to
capture the IDENT and modify the data to indicate it was now SATA rather then
the PATA device. This wouldn't be a very pretty thing to
do.
> By the way, you would
probably want a lot more information that just how the device translates data.
> Knowing whether it is a
bridge or not will not solve any compatibilities, as there can be multiple
revisions
>
of bridges in
the marketplace as well.
Sounds to me like you just defined the need for
it more than I could have.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 6:01
PM
Subject: RE: [t13] Microsoft's answer
to how to identify SATA which is really a bridged PATA
Gary,
It just
seems like everyone would like to know if the attached device is really a
SATA device or not and
there seems to be an indication that it is needed
more and more.
Define your idea of what a
"real" Serial ATA device is.
To the industry, it seems
to me that something that plugs into a Serial ATA port on the motherboard
using a Serial ATA cable would be a Serial ATA device. Where the
Serial ATA translation occurs in/on the HDD shouldn't
matter.
By the way, you would
probably want a lot more information that just how the device translates
data. Knowing whether it is a bridge or not will not solve any
compatibilities, as there can be multiple revisions of bridges in the
marketplace as well.
Regards,
Darrin
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of Gary
Laatsch
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 5:33 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [t13] Microsoft's answer to how to identify
SATA which is
really a bridged PATA
This message is from the
T13 list server.
I brought up on the reflector awhile back about
adding a bit to IDENT to
indicate SATA device. I remember
mentioning it would be a good thing
especially since not too many SATA
devices were out in the field at that
time. As more and more are
shipped and more and more incompatibilities are
found is anyone
considering this yet. I know it would mean that a SATA
paddle card
would have to capture IDENT command and modify the data and this
might
not be an ideal thing to do. But what about the native SATA
devices?
I didn't see any mention of it in the minutes from Oct. 2003
meetings. I
have also gone through the latest ATAPI-7 Book 1 and
see no mention of it.
Is there a reason no one wants to do this. It
just seems like everyone
would like to know if the attached device is
really a SATA device or not and
there seems to be an indication that it
is needed more and more.
Gary
Laatsch
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message
-----
From: "Nathan Obr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:42
PM
Subject: RE: [t13] Microsoft's answer to how to identify SATA which
is
really a bridged PATA
> This message is from the T13
list server.
>
>
> Except for the hot-pluggable part, you
are correct.
> The PCI sub-class code distinguishes emulation from
native not parallel
> from serial. However, there is no
assumptions about hot-pluggable made
> in either.
>
> The
purpose of this is to prevent the loading of existing PATA drivers
>
on SATA controllers that do not emulate PATA.
>
>
Nathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf
Of Pat
> LaVarre
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 1:29
PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [t13] Microsoft's answer
to how to identify SATA which is
> really a bridged
PATA
>
> This message is from the T13 list
server.
>
>
> > Subject: [t13] Microsoft's answer
to how to
> > identify SATA which is really a bridged
PATA
> > ...
> > From: Robert Horton
...
> > Has anyone seen Microsoft's answer on to
how
> > to identify SATA which is really a
bridged
> > PATA:
> > ...
> >
Identifying Emulating Parallel ATA Mode and
> > Native Serial
ATA Mode Controllers ...
> >
> > http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/tech/storage/serialata_faq.mspx
>
>
This says how to distinguish whether host controllers support
>
hot-pluggable native serial ata or just emulated parallel ata, yes?
>
Nothing about how to distinguish a parallel ata device from a serial
>
ata device?
>
> Pat
LaVarre
>
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