Yep the CAD data exists and for even the 'improved' type jelly bean chips the
test boards (usually custom designed by yours truly) exist and they get tested
to within inches of there lives. The result is a frighteningly high cost to
design a chip that will meet datasheet specs. The datasheet is the final proof
of a chips performance and the device just plane doesnt get released if it
doesnt meet spec or fails any of the burn in tests. The spice data and expected
performance characteristics are well known and are fairly well matched to the
real world chip and the test board results usually are better than the datasheet
limits. There are generally no mistakes - in the CAD area at least, for a
production released chip.
Its been my experiance in the case of my company, that there is a free and open
communication channel between staff and customer. This is from a company that
can trace its roots in the semiconductor business back to manufacturing tubes
30-40 years ago! This section is now part of the IDT group. It was previously
owned by QSI and before that was part of the AWA group. It is currently
designing clock, logic and network chips and characterising completed designs.
The company does post the spice and IBIS models of devices to its website and
the models do seem to work with Protel. If anyone is interested in pursuing this
further off list, please get in touch.
_______________________________________________________________
Clive Broome
IDT Sydney Design Centre Ph: +61 2 9763 3513
8 Bayswater Dr, Homebush Fax: +61 2 9763 3409
Sydney, NSW, 2127 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Australia
Australia's Leading Semiconductor Designers
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Bagotronix Tech Support" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 06/08/2001 12:54:42 AM
Please respond to "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: (bcc: Clive Broome/sdc)
Subject: Re: [PEDA] CAD Info Dreams WAS: Resistor pack?
Yes, I have been wanting this for years. The CAD data for these parts must
exist if the chip company offers an evaluation board for their chip -
otherwise, how did they design the eval board?
However, there is no incentive for the chip companies to do this until the
first one of them starts doing it. And I don't see that happening any time
soon. Their legal and IP departments have probably nixed this idea in the
past, due to liability concerns. If they make a mistake in their CAD data,
they could get sued when the customer's design doesn't work, disclaimers
notwithstanding. Marketing departments are not technically savvy enough to
realize the marketing value of the CAD data, so they won't push for it.
(But they do think if they put an "e-" in front of it or a ".com" after it,
it will sell like hotcakes.) Many firms also guard their IP as if they are
the only people in the world capable of designing it, and everyone else is
out to steal, Steal, STEAL! I recently worked with a Zilog SDLC chip that
had no example C code that was freely available. Zilog expects you to pay
several hundred dollars for the "driver development kit". Forget it! I
wrote my own C driver. It was difficult, but I oppose in principle being
charged for info that should be gratis when you buy the chip. I would have
chosen a different chip if it had been possible, but when you have to
support a legacy design, you don't get to change chips!
CAD format interchangeability is a pipe dream that has been shamelessly
promoted by marketeers and vigorously denied by real, shipping CAD products.
AutoCAD changes their file formats with each version and always manages to
screw up other companies' DXF translators. They do this to keep people on
the endless upgrade treadmill.
All negative opinion aside, I would still love to see this happen. It would
make a great addition to Protel. Who really wants to make their own
1000-pin BGA part symbols?
Best regards,
Ivan Baggett
Bagotronix Inc.
website: www.bagotronix.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Neave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Resistor pack?
Hi all,
Same as everyone else. Make my own library, rename parts, then guard with
religious fervour.
However I think it is crazy that Protel or myself should have to make
schematic and PCB layouts every time a chip comes out. What I would like to
be able to do is go to a Web site [Wavey lines as we fade to dream
sequence], find a part, then download its' standard Description File. This
file would have:
1. A Spice Model
2. A schematic part
3. A PCB footprint
4. A 3D outline
5. Suggested Price
I would Import this part into my CAD package (which would convert from the
standard Description File to their proprietary format) and off I go. If
company doesn't supply a Description File for their part, there is a good
chance that I will just use a competitors' part (lazy sod that I am).
This would benefit all CAD users, not just Protel users. Does any one think
that the idea has any credibility - and if so - who should I start annoying
???
[End wavey lines.... Dream sequence fades]
Sorry for going so far off topic,
Steve Neave
Hunter Watertech
Hardware Design Engineer
76 Munibung Rd, Cardiff, NSW, 2285
AUSTRALIA
ph. 02 4941 1231, fax 02 4954 3543 (Local)
ph. +61 249 411 231, fax +61 249 543 543 (International)
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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