Barry, answers will be in line (as a side notice: I will start love when someone says something bad about WMF if that is the only way that we can actually see they posting mails).
*So there are some technical issues that we were dealing with regarding the > funding of the conference that did not enable it to be a grant. > * So, I helped AroundTheGlobe to write the grant, I'm in GAC and thefore I need to review the grant. I'm also an "honorary" organizer of WCI, so I actually know a lot about this grant and all the things around it - and that is why I mention it. *Also, I think it is a mistake to say that the conference is the product of > a WMF initiative or is being controlled by WMF. The conference was and is a > community initiative with lots of participation. > * I don't know where you read in my mail that "the conference is product of a WMF initiative". I never said that. *We provided a small stipend to help once it was clear that the logistical > activities required full time resources.** WMF or the trust as not run > the conference...we have provided funds to enable it.* So let me do a little comparison to see if you get my (in fact Anirudh's) point: If WMIN decide to fund thenselves in 2012 Fundraising, WMF will provide people to "a small stipend help" them with the full time employee necessary to run a decent fundraising? *The grant does actually help to put some building blocks in place such as > supporting accounting and legal needs. > * legal needs don't actually imply a full time lawyer or accountant to WMIN (I also review this grant and made that exactly question<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:WM_IN/Bootstrap_Grant#Operating_Expenses> ) *Also, nothing stopping the chapter from building further in the > future...since the grant process remains open as do communication lines > with WMF and the community. > * Again, no one said they can't. The only thing we said was that WIPT receive money directly WITHOUT a grant, with give them an advantage. *There have been three consultant hires in India to date - Hisham, Nitika > and Shiju. As mentioned in the past, the team is expected to be 5 people. > * Well, I saw at least 4 hiring in the mailing list, so Hisham might have someone else working for him. I can go look into archives, but I'm pretty sure Indian operations are bigger than this. _____ *Béria Lima* <http://wikimedia.pt/>(351) 925 171 484 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. <http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>* On 11 November 2011 18:58, Barry Newstead <bnewst...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > A couple of clarifications: > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Béria Lima <berial...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Disclaimer: I'm not Indian, and I don't know much about the Indian > > operations, but I needed to answer about something I do know. > > > > > > *Anirudh said: WMIN and WIPT will theoretically compete for funding > within > > >> India, much of which will be allocated to WIPT, given that it is > > >> professionalized (and because we never had a chance) and in WMF's good > > >> graces.* > > >> > > > > > > *And Bishakha answered: As I understand it, WMIN has received a grant > > > from WMF, so I can't understand how it "never had a chance".** * > > > > > > > Ok talking about grants: WMIN has so far 2 grants: a Bootstrap > > Grant<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:WM_IN/Bootstrap_Grant>and > > a grant for WCI > > 2011 < > > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:WM_IN/WikiConference_India_2011 > > >(since > > this > > grant< > > > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:WM_IN/Wiki_Community_development_in_India_and_newsletter > > >state > > in the begin that is not a chapter grant, despite the fact that has > > the WMIN in the title). One is for a ver specif thing - a conference - > who > > is being leading by 2 "fellows" of WMF. > > > So there are some technical issues that we were dealing with regarding the > funding of the conference that did not enable it to be a grant. Also, I > think it is a mistake to say that the conference is the product of a WMF > initiative or is being controlled by WMF. The conference was and is a > community initiative with lots of participation. We provided a small > stipend to help once it was clear that the logistical activities required > full time resources. WMF or the trust as not run the conference...we have > provided funds to enable it. > > > > The second one has nothing to do > > with professionalization. > > > The grant does actually help to put some building blocks in place such as > supporting accounting and legal needs. Also, nothing stopping the chapter > from building further in the future...since the grant process remains open > as do communication lines with WMF and the community. > > > > So when comes to funding, if they decide to > > collect funds locally, would be incredible difficult to "fight against" > the > > WIPT who is full of employees[1] who are used to work with that for > years. > > That was - I believe - Anirudh's point. > > > > As I said, there is no reason to "fight against" anyone. For example, > Hisham, Gautam and others all worked to find sponsorships for the > Wikiconference India. It was a collaborative effort, not a competition. > Funding should and will flow to program work in various places. In some > cases, donors may be more comfortable giving to one org or another...so it > may actually be an asset to have more than one alternative. > > > > > [1] I'm in WMIN ML and I see a hiring once per month, sometimes more. > > > > There have been three consultant hires in India to date - Hisham, Nitika > and Shiju. As mentioned in the past, the team is expected to be 5 people. > > _____ > > *Béria Lima* > > <http://wikimedia.pt/>(351) 925 171 484 > > > > *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter > > livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a > > construir esse sonho. <http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>* > > > > Best, > Barry > > > > > On 11 November 2011 17:34, Bishakha Datta <bishakhada...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Anirudh Bhati <anirudh...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The initial idea, if I understood it correctly, was to establish > > another > > > > non-profit body within India, for a period of three to five years to > > > > execute specific (and large-scale) programmes. As of now, the WIPT > > > > (Wikimedia India Program Office) can pretty much do anything it wants > > > with > > > > the Wikimedia brand - partner with institutions, raise money locally, > > > have > > > > paid employees and bypass community. > > > > > > > > > From what I have seen, the program office does not behave like a law > unto > > > itself, as implied above. > > > > > > > > > > This is what I foresee happening: > > > > WMIN will be involved in community-building and small-scale projects > > > which > > > > support volunteers and the WIPT will partner with large institutions > in > > > > India (who are understandably looking to club with international > > > > organizations), get a lot of media coverage and acquire the big > grants > > > > (since WMIN is not a professional body). > > > > > > > > > WMIN has already had interest from and meetings with other donors, > > > including pretty big ones in India (I was there at one such in 2010), > so > > > why this feeling that WMIN can't acquire the big grants? > > > > > > > > > > WMIN and WIPT will theoretically > > > > compete for funding within India, much of which will be allocated to > > > WIPT, > > > > given that it is professionalized (and because we never had a chance) > > and > > > > in WMF's good graces. > > > > > > > > > As I understand it, WMIN has received a grant from WMF, so I can't > > > understand how it "never had a chance". > > > > > > > > > > This is how WMIN has been made redundant (something > > > > that I have been saying for a long, long time). > > > > > > > > I really don't get this. Given that India is a huge country - with > more > > > than 1 billion people - and zillions of opportunities to grow editing > > > communities in different languages, how can WMIN become or be made > > > redundant? Also, given that the chapter is less than a year old, and > has > > > some new office-bearers, and has announced new plans for moving > forward, > > > how is it redundant? > > > > > > My personal view is that there is enough work ahead for not just one, > or > > > two, but numerous entities, formal and informal, to enter the fray and > > > actualize this potential. Already, there are many more requests for > > > collaboration within India than either WMIN or WIPT or both put > together > > > can handle. > > > > > > Given this huge potential, I don't see why this discussion has to be > > framed > > > through the lens of competition or territoriality. > > > > > > Cheers > > > Bishakha > > > _______________________________________________ > > > foundation-l mailing list > > > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > foundation-l mailing list > > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > > > > > > -- > Barry Newstead > Chief Global Development Officer > Wikimedia Foundation > > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in > the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! > > http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate > _______________________________________________ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l