On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 3:06 AM, Vincent Untz <vu...@gnome.org> wrote: > Hi, > > Le jeudi 21 novembre 2013, à 12:17 +0000, Allan Day a écrit : >> Vincent Untz <vu...@gnome.org> wrote: >> >> Do we have examples of the guidelines "hurting us"? >> > >> > I can think of groups simply choosing to not use the GNOME logo anymore >> > because they're afraid of not respecting the guidelines. >> >> I'd be interested in the specifics here. Could you send me contact >> details for the groups concerned? > > I'd start with all the local groups that we have (see > https://wiki.gnome.org/UserGroups -- it's likely outdated, though) and > our downstreams (contact would be distributor-list). > >> > If I was >> > completely new to the community, and I'd read the guidelines, I'd simply >> > think that it's simpler to not use the logo at all. I'd not even ask... >> > >> > This hurts because I can imagine local groups not doing stickers, >> > flyers, etc. because they'd be afraid of the guidelines. Back in the >> > days when we started GNOME-FR, there were no guidelines so we went crazy >> > and did many different things; we wouldn't have done all that with the >> > current guidelines. >> >> Yeah, so the thing that I think we really miss is some examples of >> what is cool to do. Like examples of t-shirts and stickers, and >> original designs based on the logo. My understanding is that this >> would require some work from the board... > > What about all the goodies we had at FOSDEM and GUADEC in the last 7 or > 8 years? :-) > >> Right now the guidelines are pretty unfriendly (especially the >> guidelines for third parties, which is one of the things I don't like >> about them) and only really cover what you can't do, rather than what >> you can. The new page I wrote makes an effort to do away with as much >> unfriendliness as possible, but could be more welcoming and >> accessible. > > Just to give an example of what we do in openSUSE: > http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Trademark_guidelines > > To be clear, this page is clearly not the most friendly page out there > (too complex), but it explicitly gives many examples of what can be done > without requesting permission. > >> >> In the Ubuntu GNOME case, I think it's fair to ask about the logo, >> >> irrespective of the trademark guidelines. Their logo [1] is >> >> essentially the same as the GNOME logo itself; some differentiation >> >> seems beneficial for both them and us. We don't have to be unfriendly >> >> about it, but then a dialogue about how they can help to support the >> >> GNOME brand doesn't seem like a bad thing. >> > >> > Of course it's fair, but to be honest, I'm fine with them using our >> > logo. Fedora and openSUSE both use our logo too: >> > http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-options#desktops >> > http://software.opensuse.org/131/en >> > >> > Sure, the context is slightly different, because you see all the flavors >> > on the same page for Fedora and openSUSE, while it's not the case for >> > Ubuntu GNOME. But it feels the same. >> >> The seem like different types of cases to me, to be honest. Using the >> GNOME foot as a logo for an independent project seems of a different >> type to indicating that GNOME is featured in a piece of software. (The >> latter is stated as fair use by the third party guidelines, fwiw.) > > Here's the thing: I don't see Ubuntu GNOME as an independent project, > but as the result of the work of the GNOME team in Ubuntu, in very much > the same way the GNOME team in openSUSE is able to produce a pretty good > openSUSE+GNOME-based live image. And quoting their wiki page: "Ubuntu > GNOME is an official flavour of Ubuntu, featuring the GNOME desktop > environment." [1] That seams to match pretty well what you wrote above > about Fedora and openSUSE. > > And really, coming back to one of my initial feeling: I actually want > them to use our logo so they can help promote GNOME! >
Exactly. I really don't understand whats not to like about Ubuntu GNOME promoting the fact that if you use Ubuntu and you want GNOME (as many of us do), there's a ready-made flavor for you. Ubuntu GNOME is promoting GNOME - how/why is that a bad thing? > Cheers, > > Vincent > > [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME > > -- > Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. > _______________________________________________ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list -- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein _______________________________________________ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
