Hi, You refer to a comparison between civicrm and OffstageArts, would it be possible to see it ?
(full disclosure: I'm using CiviCRM for several NGOs, and like it ;) X+ 2008/10/21 Bradley M. Kuhn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Bob wrote at 00:42 (EDT) on Monday: > >> I would like to introduce myself. I am Robert Fischer, the author of >> OffstageArts, one of the systems now listed at: > > Bob (I assume the nickname is one you use, since it's in your From: > line, if not, correct me ;), it's really great to have you here on this > list. > > Our first task that we've undertaken in our project is to understand and > survey the existing projects that are out there. We don't want to > reinvent the wheel, but we also have found limitations that concern us > greatly in various systems that are out there. > > I think your comparison between OffstageArts and CiviCRM is extremely > helpful in that regard! > >> OffstageArts on Multiple JVMs > >> I tested OffstageArts on a variety of free and non-free Java VMs. The >> on-line demo (which is the same as the real program) now launches >> successfully on MacOS 10.4 and 10.5, Windows XP, Ubuntu 8.04 and >> Fedora Core 8 (and probably many others as well). It works with Java >> version 1.5 or 1.6. If you are interested in trying out the on-line >> demo, > > I am curious if you've tried it with gcj/Classpath. It would be very > good if the system could be built from the ground up using Free Software > components. In fact, I think that will be the key issue in whether or > not we can look to it as a possible solution. > > I very quickly tried to follow your hardy instructions using openjdk, > but I have package dependency problems. Since I don't have > multiverse/restricted in my sources.list, my guess is that openjdk still > depends on some proprietary components to work. > > (I must admit to being outside the Java space for nearly a decade, and > therefore am not up to speed on how close the Free versions are with the > semi-Free ones released by Sun so far). > >> d) OA is much simpler to install, configure and manage. Client > > I think it would be really good, even so, if it were packaged for > Debian. I assume you haven't done so because there are still non-free > dependencies, but if you can get the thing to work with gcj/Classpath > and then package it for Debian, it would go a long way (at least for me > to feel it was something to start looking seriously at). > > (If you can eradicate the non-free dependencies, I'd be happy to help > you with the Debian packaging.) > >> However, I believe that GUI widgets allow for a richer and more >> responsive end-user experience. > > I am for this point. I think that while, as you point out, AJAX-based > applications are starting to solve things on the browser side, that > medium-term there needs to be an AJAX client and a desktop client in > parallel. > >> Non-profit management software, to be successful, must be developed >> in a very limited budget. These systems will never have the kind of >> programmer time that Google or Microsoft or Apache or even the FSF can >> apply to their core products. > > Strange you mention the FSF, since it hasn't really spent money on > software development for ten years, and the stuff that is currently > deployed on FSF was primarily written in a period of just a few months, > and has had minor tweaks but no major development since then. (I > managed the building of that software while at FSF.) > > The point, though, is that *we* will do the work so that non-profits > don't need to pay for that. Ideally, the funding agencies that fund > non-profits already, that are giving our money (via overhead part of > grants) to buy Raiser's Edge and other proprietary-licensed stuff should > fund the improvement of a FaiF replacement. > > My belief on the next steps for this project needs to go is that to > something working well enough (be it through existing software or > something we write), and get enough different FLOSS organizations behind > it that we can go and get grant money to make it better. The problem > is, that's a hard thing to do (I've been trying off-and-on to get > funding for this specific project for nearly ten years now), and I am > convinced we need something that solves some real problems for > non-profits today before we can expect to get a grant. > > In other words, we need a system that all the FLOSS organizations are > more or less behind, and that has active deployments in the FLOSS world > that are working. > >> b) AJAX apps never seem to run as smoothly as regular desktop GUI >> apps. It is interpreted JavaScript, after all. And they often have >> funny weird glitches... > > I agree with that. > >> c) Significant AJAX infrastructure requires significant download >> times, and AJAX apps have no caching mechanism. > > I am not so worried about that... > > > Anyway, I would love to give a serious look at OA, but until it runs on > a fully Free infrastructure for sure, I am unlikely to think it's viable > for FLOSS organizations long term (although it, like the existing > not-yet-released donor.com software, might be a good short-term > solution). > > If you are serious about making it work in with only Free Software, I'm > happy to help, and I do have a few Free Software Java contacts with whom > I can call in a few favors if you are serious about doing it. Stay in > touch about this if you want to proceed on it! > > (Also, Bob, I hope you will subscribe to the list, if you haven't > already!) > -- > > -- bkuhn > _______________________________________________ > software mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.flossfoundations.org/mailman/listinfo/foundations-software > _______________________________________________ software mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.flossfoundations.org/mailman/listinfo/foundations-software
