Hi Dominic, It’s a chicken vs. egg discussion.
Many festivals and presenters who do not seek sponsorships or ad sales, because paying a staff person or contract to solicit those sales, manage the ad specs and deliverables, etc., costs more than the actual income that is brought in. Not all the money is worth chasing; chasing money costs money onto itself, or as a minimum a ton of volunteer resources that would have to be pulled away from other areas. To understand the inner workings of many film festivals, you can just apply to sit on their boards of directors - those folks have access to the insider information you are seeking. So long as a festival is a registered non profit organization in their respective jurisdictions, their boards will have access to all of this information. But I’ll suggest that the underlying premise here is that you are grossly underestimating how much things cost, and you can just quickly add up the obvious expenses lines and estimate what those are, to find a quick financial baseline. For example: one ED of a small / mid-sized festival should be paid at least $60K. Add in one staffer who is helping with operations / logistics and one staffer who is helping with technical, and that’s another $60K. So, you have $120K right there. Bookkeeping and audit will costs as a minimum $10K (these are mandatory expenses in order for organizations to be eligible for permanent funding). Facility rental for a film festival - at least $5K. Promotion - at least another $10K. Equipment and repair, at least $5K. Fees to filmmakers for screening their works, $20K. Guest hospitality services during the festival, $5K. Many festivals will provide subsidies to filmmakers who are coming in from out of town and / or cover some of these expenses in full, and a small festival I know covers on average $10K in travel expenses yearly. That’s $185K right there. And the base expenses are exactly the same for smaller and mid sized festivals - as they all have the same volume of operating grant requests to write, and they all have to go through the same audit processes, and they all need some kind of presentation venues and facilities, etc. If we were to apply university level wages and costs to these festivals, then double all of these costs. If anybody is managing to run a film festival for under $200K, then you know it’s at the expense of staff wages, and I would hope that filmmakers would be aware and be working in solidarity to bring staff wages up to at least living wages. Many of the small and mid sized festivals are running solely on the love of those who are volunteering (or functionally volunteering) for those organizations. Sure, some festivals function administratively better than others. Some charge filmmakers fees for submissions and others don’t. But in my direct experience, I’ve yet to see one small or mid-sized festival or presenter where the staffers are enrichening themselves from these orgs. It’s definitely possible that some festivals might be started with the naïve idea that they could be a get-rich-quick scheme, but these reality is that there isn’t a way to become rich off these ventures. A festival like that would surely die away pretty quickly, and so if a festival has laster longer than 5-10 years, you know they are not in that category. Maybe the large festivals fare better in terms of staff wages, but I’ve heard many programmers tell me they are receiving token wages, and so I suspect not. And if you think you can run a festival better and more efficiently, I certainly welcome you to start one up. We need more functioning film festivals, and so anybody who is able to get one up and running — this will obviously benefit the entire filmmaking community. And to this point — > Remember the Festivals depend upon filmmakers entering their work. If no > filmmakers entered a festival then there would be no festival The problem is the exact opposite of what you suggest. The problem is that there are exponentially more films being produced than presenters can find a space for. So either festivals expand by charging filmmakers even more, or filmmakers start advocating for better funding of film festivals, via private foundations and government grants - or festivals functionally shrink as expenses skyrocket and funding is at best flat-lined, which is a functional reduction if it’s not keeping up with inflation. The reality is that the latter is going to happen, because folks who go in and roll up their sleeves for community organizations, are rare creatures. Cecilia Araneda >> ceciliaaraneda.ca > On Aug 28, 2025, at 10:30 AM, Dominic Angerame <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Hi Cecilia, I hear what you are saying about admin costs. I have, in the > past, helped to run a small film festival and had managed Canyon Cinema for > 32 years. I do know well about admin costs. I know staff members should be > paid a reasonable salary and what they are worth. Film Festivals receive > numerous grants, however that may now be changing, they receive revenue thru > advertising so much that many have to make a trailer listing all their > sponsors not to mention ticket sales, donations of screening spaces, etc. > Despite the increased number of entries, most film festivals continue to > offer the same amount of screenings as they did in the past when entries were > not so voluminous. For example Ann Arbor receives thousands of entries yet > their festival has not expanded accordingly to accommodate the increase of > entries. This appears to be true for many festivals. I would love to see the > budgets of the festivals. > > Remember the Festivals depend upon filmmakers entering their work. If no > filmmakers entered a festival then there would be no festival. The purpose of > the festival is to present the filmmaker's work. Without the work the > Festivals would not exist. > > D > > On Thu, Aug 28, 2025 at 7:53 AM Sandy McLennan <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> Andre, >> That's not helpful. What are your experiences? What are your suggestions? >> Sandy >> >> On Wed, Aug 27, 2025 at 11:41 PM Cecilia Araneda <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> When I entered into filmmaking, I used to mail VHS preview copies of my >>> works to film festivals (including VHS copies of film prints) and then if >>> selected, I would have to ship out either a BetaSP or print copy of my work >>> on my own dime. >>> >>> I remember in the late aughts sweating as one of my films set for a >>> prestigious European premiere encountered the issue of all planes being >>> re-directed due to that European volcano affecting the Atlantic ocean, only >>> to then ultimately being incorrectly rerouted by FedEx to some tiny island >>> in the Pacific ocean. I then had to quickly pay for a new Beta SP copy of >>> my film and have it re-shipped. >>> >>> I don’t know that it’s more expensive now in the era where platforms like >>> Film Freeway tempt film festivals to mine for submissions fees to make up >>> an important percentage of their revenue streams. Before, I would pay an >>> exorbitant amount of money to postal services and shippers and to just have >>> physical preview and screening copies made. And so before, I also had to >>> budget my submissions because there was just only so much I could spend on >>> making physical copies and shipping. And when I had to ship a 35 mm short >>> film internationally - that was certainly exceptionally financially >>> painful. >>> >>> Times have changed, but distributing films continues to be as expensive as >>> it was in the past. >>> >>> There was the belief in the past that moving to mostly digital would make >>> things cheaper for filmmakers - but global economic and geo-political >>> factors jump-in in ways many filmmakers cannot anticipate. In this era with >>> skyrocketing inflation, festivals have to budget for the impact that the >>> inflation affects everything that makes them sustainable - wages, facility >>> rentals, equipment, international shipping in the era of outrageous >>> tariffs, etc. And then whatever is going on in the USA, which is utterly >>> perplexing to behold from the outside. Even festivals that are >>> predominantly funded by sources other than submission fees - either by >>> private foundations or government agencies - are not seeing their grant >>> funding keep up with inflation. >>> >>> If you suspect that your films have not been viewed by a festival, then you >>> shouldn’t continue submitting to them. Consider submitting to different >>> festivals if your works are continually not being selected by your usual >>> go-to’s. Maybe it’s the case that the usual festivals you are submitting to >>> aren’t necessarily the best fits for your works, and it might be time to >>> test out different pastures. >>> >>> As to your comment: "it appears that many of the Festivals have just become >>> pyramid schemes whose only purpose is to pay for administrative costs and >>> the return to the filmmakers financially is minimal” — I wouldn’t so >>> quickly discount what is included in “administrative costs,” as these >>> include fees and salaries to hard working staff, who are often working for >>> token wages. I’ve often thought the sector should unionize somehow, because >>> I know so many cultural workers are not paid remotely enough - not even >>> living wages. >>> >>> And then there are also the costs of facility rental, equipment management, >>> logistics, and promotion. Festivals need to spend a proportionally high >>> amount on promotion in comparison to artist run centre type screenings, as >>> you need to have some kind of audience. And then there are fees that need >>> to be spent to just be eligible for permanent / operating grant funding, >>> outside of project fund there and there that is to random to make a >>> festival work - and this requires a ton of foundational bookkeeping and >>> financial management work to prove to the private and public funders that >>> your organization maintain professional financial management practices and >>> has 3rd party financial oversight (prepping for audit, and then going >>> through audit). Just keeping receipts and making payments within a >>> reasonable window of time is a huge administrative production that is >>> necessary to a film festival organization existing. >>> >>> I have seen film organizations run like well-oiled machines due to >>> exceptional bookkeeping practices; and conversely seen others struggle to >>> near-death because of a dire lack of attention to administrative work - and >>> I can assure you the latter absolutely does not benefit any filmmaker >>> whatsoever. Diminishing the value and impact of administrative work as >>> somehow being less important labour within arts organization than >>> filmmaking, is not a great solidarity position. >>> >>> Best of luck on placing your works! >>> >>> Cecilia Araneda >>> >> ceciliaaraneda.ca <http://ceciliaaraneda.ca/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 26, 2025, at 8:27 PM, Sandy McLennan <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> This is an oft-seen reply: “too many submissions”. What to do? Will >>>> festivals cut off the number? They can’t possibly watch all submissions. >>>> Will a deadline be reliably administered? Here seems like a good forum for >>>> such a discussion, if only from the submitters side (best if festival reps >>>> would comment, too). >>>> >>>> Hats off to Celluloid Now (Chicago), for example, who limit in one manner >>>> by requiring proof that a submitter already has a physical film ready to >>>> screen (although maybe they get “too many” also). I realize this is not a >>>> solution, just an example I happen to know of. >>>> >>>> At the very least, whether you paid (and that certainly adds up, even if >>>> low amounts per) a submission fee or not, we wish for our work to be seen >>>> and considered. Can’t tell if this always happens. >>>> >>>> Sandy >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 26, 2025 at 12:34 PM Dominic Angerame >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> Over the past three years I have created a large volume of work and have >>>>> been spending a major fortune entering various film festivals around the >>>>> world, both large and small. Unfortunately the rejection notices amount >>>>> to more than 200. What I am told constantly is that the volume of work >>>>> entered had been incredibly large and many films had to be turned down. >>>>> What I figured out is that the average chance of being shown at a film >>>>> festival is about 5%. One major festival I know about had thousands of >>>>> films entered. Yet the amount of films that were shown were less than 1% >>>>> of the entries. With entry fees averaging about $30-$40 per film it >>>>> appears that many of the Festivals have just become pyramid schemes whose >>>>> only purpose is to pay for administrative costs and the return to the >>>>> filmmakers financially is minimal. >>>>> >>>>> I have better chances of winning money on a scratch off lottery ticket >>>>> than to get accepted into a film festival. The only power filmmakers have >>>>> is to boycott those festivals that charge such high entry fees. There is >>>>> no need for them and no pay back for the filmmakers. >>>>> >>>>> Now the only festivals I entered offer no entry fees or those less than >>>>> $15. When asked to enter film festivals charging more than this fee, I >>>>> send the film festival a rejection letter. It may not have much effect >>>>> however it feels great to reject a film festival than receiving a >>>>> rejection from them. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for reading this. >>>>> >>>>> Dominic >>>>> -- >>>>> Frameworks mailing list >>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org >>>> -- >>>> Frameworks mailing list >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org >>> >>> -- >>> Frameworks mailing list >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org >> -- >> Frameworks mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org > -- > Frameworks mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.film-gallery.org/mailman/listinfo/frameworks_film-gallery.org
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