Last January my husband and I participated in a conference in Detroit called 
"Faith of Our Fathers: A Colloquy on Orthodoxy for Anglicans." The current 
issue of Again magazine includes transcripts of many of the talks given, and a 
copy of ours is below. 
The next such conference, this time for Lutherans, will take place Sept 
10-12, at the same conference center in Detroit. 
_http://www.orthodoxdetroit.com/index.htm_ 
(http://www.orthodoxdetroit.com/index.htm)   For info, write to Dean 
Calvert at [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])  
Podcasts are turning out to be a lot of fun. You can "tune in" any time to 
listen to my 10-minute interviews and commentaries on Ancient Faith Radio. They 
have 8 posted so far, on topics from organic foods to screenwriting to ancient 
Byzantine vestments. They're all at 
_http://www.ancientfaithradio.com/podcasts/frederica/_ 
(http://www.ancientfaithradio.com/podcasts/frederica/)  . You 
can also subscribe and have the podcasts delivered to your computer or mp3 
player every Thursday as they're posted.  
***  
Keeping Body and Soul Together: Two Former Episcopalians Reflect on 15 Years 
in the Orthodox Christian Church 
Fr. Gregory and Frederica Mathewes-Green 
Frederica: After 15 years in Orthodoxy, we can reflect on how our journey in 
Christ has been shaped by the transition from the Episcopal Church. Our joint 
story began when we met in college as non-believers, contemptuous of 
Christianity; we were married and then came to the Lord in fairly miraculous 
ways. God 
has always kept us united in faith. We attended Episcopal seminary, and Fr. 
Gregory was ordained, while Frederica, raised the kids and taught childbirth 
classes. During these years, from the mid-seventies through the late eighties, 
we 
were happy in the Episcopal Church. 
But then we began to be disturbed by what seemed to be a redefining of the 
faith at the upper levels of the church. We kept hearing bishops denying the 
Resurrection and the Virgin Birth. Fr. Gregory and five other Baltimore priests 
got together and wrote a document called "The Baltimore Declaration," which was 
an attempt to reestablish theological orthodoxy in the Episcopal Church, but 
it had little impact.  
The straw that broke the camel's back, though, came during the 1991 General 
Convention of the Episcopal Church. I, Frederica, was present in the house of 
bishops when they voted on the Frey Resolution. It stated: "Episcopal clergy 
should abstain from sex outside of marriage." (Sometimes I hear Orthodox gasp 
when I tell this story; they have no idea what things were like.) After the 
votes were counted we found that the resolution was defeated. I went out and 
found 
a pay phone and called my husband in tears. I said to him, "This is not a 
Church anymore. It may be some kind of social workers' organization with 
excellent aesthetics, but it is not a Church anymore, because it has no 
intention of 
obeying its Lord." 
That was when we began to talk seriously about leaving the church. We looked 
into alternatives like the "continuing" Anglican churches and the Catholic 
Church. The Orthodox Church never occurred to us; we thought of it as a church 
you had to be born into. But when Fr. Peter Gillquist came to town my husband 
went to hear him, and found Fr. Peter to be a very effective exponent and 
explainer of the Orthodox faith.  
This led to the first real division in our marriage. He saw a beauty in 
Orthodoxy that I just did not get. He was pastoring a small church outside of 
Baltimore, and I kept saying, "God has placed you here. You can be like a 
mother 
hen for this parish, and ignore what's going on in the national Church." But he 
kept saying, "I am a man under authority, and I know what it means to be in a 
chain of command. I exercise authority because of authority over me, and I can 
no longer be in communion with my bishops." 
So we were at stalemate. "God needed chaplains on the Titanic," I kept 
telling him. "I don't know if the Episcopal Church is going to make it, but 
maybe we 
are placed here to go down with the ship. Maybe we should just be holding 
people's hands, and praying with them as the ship goes down." He would grumble, 
but he couldn't think of any comeback.  
Fr. Gregory: Finally, I came up with it! I told Frederica, "You know what God 
needed on the Titanic? Lifeboats! We know where there's a ship that is not 
going down. I'm not obligated to this denomination; it's the people in this 
parish who matter, and we need to help as many of them as possible get onto 
that 
ship that's not sinking." Frederica finally relented:  "You got me. I give up." 
She still didn't really understand Orthodoxy, or particularly want to be 
Orthodox, not until the day of our chrismation. That is a powerful sacrament, 
and 
by the time that service was over, we all were in love with the beauty of 
Orthodox worship.  
Worshipping Creatures 
As a priest who has served the Eastern Rite Liturgy now for 14 years, I have 
a deep love for our Orthodox Christian worship. It is the central role of 
worship that I find most striking as I reflect on my movement into the fullness 
of 
Christ in Orthodoxy. 
In the Orthodox Church, ever since the apostolic period worship has been an 
expression of thanksgiving to God that tends toward maximalism. We want our 
entire lives, everything we have and are, to show forth gratitude, and we want 
our worship to reflect that. Because we are creatures of united body and soul, 
we offer worship to God not only from the depths of our souls but also in our 
bodies. In our worship, there are things to taste, things to touch, fragrances 
to savor, beautiful things to see. There are the shape and lines of the temple 
and the presence of the saints visible through the iconography. We catch the 
fragrance of the Kingdom in the incense and sometimes also, miraculously, from 
relics or myrrh. And of course we hear music. We worship with our whole 
bodies and engage all of our senses. 
There is a certain "given-ness" to our worship. As a former Episcopal priest, 
I am glad that in Orthodox worship we don't have to pick and choose. If 
previously we were Episcopalian low- churchmen, we may have taken the Book of 
Common Prayer and cut it down; as high-churchmen, we may have taken the Book of 
Common Prayer and built it up with supplementary services like the Benediction 
of 
the Blessed Sacrament. In Orthodoxy, however, the Typicos is simply given. 
There is joy and freedom in this changelessness, this timelessness. 
We pay great attention to the holiness of God in the service, and this 
affects, for example, how we conduct a procession. But there is also resistance 
to 
obsessive over-attention to detail. We ought to feel at home in our Father's 
house. That doesn't mean leisureliness, but an ability to stop obsessing before 
the big picture gets lost. 
One of my mentors as I journeyed into Orthodoxy was another former 
Episcopalian, Fr. Bill Olnhausen. One time I asked him, "What's the difference 
for you, 
between worship as an Episcopalian and worship as an Orthodox? From the 
standpoint of a priest, how does it feel different?" And he said, "Well, back 
when I 
was an Episcopalian, if I was standing one place in the sanctuary and I 
realized I'd left my prayer book on the other side, I didn't know how to get 
it. 
There wasn't a choreography for crossing the sanctuary at a non-liturgical 
time. 
But as an Orthodox, I felt much more comfortable. And I figured out how to 
get my prayer book if I'd put it down out of reach. I'd walk over and pick it 
up."  How eminently sensible and yet, ultimately, worshipful. In the Orthodox 
liturgy, worship is the point of everything that is going on. The intent is not 
to display perfectly staged enactment of something in a book. The intent is to 
explore together the glory of being in God's house.  
At the heart of Orthodoxy is worship. We're not a group of theologians who 
also worship, or social activists who also worship. We're worshipping creatures 
whose whole reason for being is to make a glorious act of self-offering to 
God, for all eternity. And we begin doing that now. We also do works of charity 
in the community, reach out pastorally to one another, we offer Christian 
education, and the whole gamut of activities that ought to happen in parishes. 
But 
this activity must spring from that central reason for our being, our 
reconnecting with our Father who is in heaven. This is the reason that He made 
us. 
This is the reason that we exist. And we will discover our destiny only when we 
open ourselves to true worship. 
Keeping Body and Soul Together 
Just as I was mentored by such people as Fr. Bill Olnhausen and Fr. Patrick 
Reardon, by the grace of God I have had the opportunity to help others making 
the journey from the Episcopal Church to the Orthodox Church. My first counsel 
to them is always that they pray for discernment. They must confront big 
questions like, "Where can I find God? Where do I believe the truth resides?" 
These 
fundamental questions must be wrestled with, and only with prayerful 
discernment can the answers be found. 
And because worship is at the heart of life as an Orthodox Christian, when 
speaking with Episcopalians drawn towards Orthodoxy I encourage them to visit 
an 
Orthodox church and experience that worship. It's important to connect on the 
local level. Books can be important; they're the easiest way to get an 
overview. But Orthodoxy is ultimately a community of people who worship, so it 
is 
essential to know the local Orthodox priest, and even, if possible, a nearby 
bishop, or the monks and nuns at a monastery. Looking back on my "Titanic" 
debate 
with Frederica, I see now that the trip on the lifeboats starts with 
attending Orthodox services and forging a bond with local Orthodox clergy. 
Experiencing the local Orthodox life of worship is essential; mere intellectual 
study is 
not enough. 
Frederica: I've also had many opportunities to continue to interact with 
members of the Episcopal Church. I know that not everyone is going to take our 
path, and that some will find everything they want in that denomination. There 
are parishes here and there all over the country where believers in classic 
Christianity can find a home. I know this because I'm asked to come and lead 
retreats at such parishes frequently, and I've seen the sincerity of their 
faith 
close up.  
The one thing that I worry about is those people who get heavily invested in 
what I call the "stay and fight" position. I think there's a negative side to 
that. Year after year of reinforcing the "stay and fight" identity can form 
you into the kind of person who loves to fight. The evil one can lure certain 
kinds of personalities into enjoyment of conflict itself, and into a love of 
playing for power. You can get addicted to saying the witty thing that slashes 
someone to ribbons. "You did not so learn Christ" (Eph 4:20). And there's a 
potential for vanity, too, in the self-valorization as a courageous fighter. 
For 
people susceptible to these temptations, the alternative of being in a faithful 
church, working out one's own salvation quietly, can look boring. They have 
come to love to fight.  
Once Fr. Gregory and I had become Orthodox, we had some tough practical 
questions to work out. I'm sure there are many Episcopal clergy families like 
ours, 
in the same boat today. Our children were still at home, and we had many 
expenses. At that point, I still wasn't doing much writing (it's funny that the 
Episcopal Church didn't "welcome my gifts" as much as Orthodoxy has.) We asked 
each other, How are we ever going to support ourselves? Where are we going to 
live? How will we keep body and soul together? 
Questions like those cause some Episcopalian families to hesitate. Some 
decide to wait, for the sake of their children; perhaps the children love their 
Sunday school, or are strongly involved in the youth group. Some parents put 
off 
becoming Orthodox until their children are grown. I caution against that, 
though, because if the husband and wife become Orthodox but their grown 
children 
don't it's very painful. It's hard when, for Christmas and Pascha, year after 
year, parents are no longer in communion with their children and grandchildren. 
When people ask us if we regret anything, we always say our only regret is 
that we didn't do it sooner. As it was, our children were 11, 13 and 16. They 
were at the point in life where kids can start to pull back from their parents. 
But they saw their father wrestling with a decision that felt very weighty to 
him, one which was very much a matter of principle, and they saw he was 
afraid. They saw that he knew that he was risking the financial health of our 
household. He didn't know what was going to happen. But he trusted God, and he 
believed that he had to go ahead and enter the Orthodox Church. The children 
knew 
that their dad was worried, but despite that trusting God and moving ahead. And 
this made him a hero in their eyes.  
The first Divine Liturgy after our chrismation, 14 years ago, happened to be 
on Valentine's Day. We had a tradition in our household that each family 
member would hand-write Valentines to every other person of the family, and 
we'd 
open and read them at the dinner table. I'll never forget the Valentine our 
13-year-old son David wrote to his father: "I am very proud of you, Dad, and I 
want you to know that I'm behind you all the way." We've always had that 
support 
from them.  
Fr. Gregory: And as their father I appreciate how rooted they are in 
Orthodoxy, in part because of the entered the church when they were still 
young. It 
laid a firm foundation. All three are married and we now have eight 
grandchildren, and all of them were baptized in the Orthodox Church. They will 
know no 
other faith apart from the changeless truth of Orthodox Christianity. 
Frederica: It is the changelessness and timelessness of Orthodoxy that stands 
out most as I think about our transition from the Episcopal Church. Once I 
was giving a speech once at an Orthodox church and said that the reason we came 
home to holy Orthodoxy was because of the chaos and disruption in the 
Episcopal Church; I kept saying, "We wanted a Church that doesn't change."  
As I was leaving, an old priest came up to me and said, "That is not right. 
You must not say that anymore. Orthodoxy does change!" I was pretty surprised, 
and said, "Father, what do you mean?" He said, "You know that in the Liturgy 
of St. John Chrysostom we pray for those who travel by land, and sea, and air! 
Do you think St. John Chrysostom knew about air travel?"  
All I could think was, "You have no idea what I am talking about. I hope you 
never find out." 
This article is based on talks given by Frederica and Fr. Gregory in January 
2007, at "Faith of Our Fathers: A Colloquium on Orthodox for Anglicans.". For 
more information on this important gathering, please see the accompanying 
article by Archbishop Nathaniel of Detroit. 
Fr. Gregory Mathewes-Green is founding pastor of Holy Cross Antiochian 
Orthodox Church in Linthicum, MD, near Baltimore. Frederica Mathewes-Green is 
his 
"Khouria," and a well-known writer and speaker, and author of eight books. They 
have three children and will soon have nine grandchildren. 
 
********
Frederica Mathewes-Green
www.frederica.com



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