Le lundi 08 avril 2013 à 17:40 +0200, Daniel Nebdal a écrit : > On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Freddie Cash <fjwc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Note: I may have messed up the quoting/attribution by snipping things. > > > > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Kevin Oberman <rkober...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Kimmo Paasiala <kpaas...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> > > On the other hand, there are a number of things that I think should be > >> > > pulled out of base. Some already have ports, and others would need > >> > > ports created. Examples of things to pull out of base are OpenSSL, > >> > > Heimdal, OpenSSH, PF, ntpd, ipfilter, bind, sendmail, and others. > >> > > Code that is typically way behind the upstream project basically. > >> > > > >> > > >> > I think Bryan already explained the reasons why pkg should not be in > >> > base, it's an external tool that is not strictly required to get a bare > >> > bones FreeBSD system up and running. Including it in base you create > >> > yet another maintainance burden and would slow down the development of > >> > the ports/packages management tools. > >> > >> What people seem to miss is that putting tools into the base system > >> strangles the tools. Look at the difficulty we have seen in updating > >> openssl. perl was removed from base for exactly that reason. Once something > >> is in base, it usually can only be updated on major releases and even then > >> it can be very complicated. That is a problem for any dynamically changing > >> tool. > >> > >> I would love to see BIND removed from base, but most of the things you > >> listed really are hard to remove. I know that I don't want to try bringing > >> up a new install of FreeBSD on a remote system without OpenSSH and that > >> pulls in openssl. In the case of many tools, it really turns into a > >> bikeshed. But i can see no reason to add any of the new packaging tools > >> simply because it is critical that updates be possible far more often than > >> is possible for the base system. > >> > >> Moving OpenSSH, OpenSSL, etc into the ports tree, but making the pkgs > > available on the installation media, and having a final hook at the end to > > install "required" pkgs, would solve that. There's already a "do you want > > to enable OpenSSH daemon" question in the installed, so adding "pkg add > > /path/to/openssh-x.y.z.txz" wouldn't be hard. > > > > Same for bind, sendmail, kerberos, etc. For instance, just add a "daemon > > selection screen" for each bit removed from base, to select which ones you > > want installed as part of the OS install. > > > > The hard part comes in finding stub/clients for each item moved to a pkg, > > such that a desktop-oriented install is not hampered (ie, SSH client is > > usable, DNS lookups can be done, local mail can be generated/delivered, > > etc). > > > > The really hard part is coming up with a migration path for those who > > upgrade via source builds. > > -- > > Freddie Cash > > fjwc...@gmail.com > > > There's also the issue that OpenSSH is used for remote administration > - being able to do destructive things with pkg without worrying about > continued SSH-access is rather relaxing. With danger of entering > bikeshed territory, it's one of the things that makes FreeBSD more > relaxing than the Linuxes: You can blast every installed package and > still be fine - and a working sshd is a part of "fine" for me, since > it's kind of a requirement for doing anything else. > > Admittedly, my personal worst-case scenario is "drag a monitor and > keyboard to the other side of the room", so I will probably survive > either way. :) > > -- > Daniel Nebdal Yep, OpenSSH is tiny enought to keep it in base system. It would be a big loss not to have it by default, securely installed in the base system.
> _______________________________________________ > freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" -- Florent Peterschmitt +33 (0)6 64 33 97 92 flor...@peterschmitt.fr
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