On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 3:08 AM, Adam Strohl <adams-free...@ateamsystems.com>wrote:
> On 6/3/2012 10:09, Mark Linimon wrote: > >> On Sun, Jun 03, 2012 at 01:43:43AM +0200, Fritz Wuehler wrote: >> >>> So there could be lots of overlap and just looking at the two numbers >>> you posted doesn't really tell the whole story. >>> >> No, I agree that it doesn't. I was just trying to add an aside, and >> point out that the task would not be trivial. >> >> Since I'm heavily invested in FreeBSD ports I think I need to step back >> and let other folks comment in this thread. >> > > I manage and support a little over 50 FreeBSD servers (VMWare, Xen and > native) and feel that the port system, on the whole, is excellent. Its > easily one of the best features about FreeBSD. Portaudit reports issues > and I can plan and upgrade them as needed. Portupgrade works great 99% of > the time and when it doesn't it has the good sense to roll back what its > done. If there is any question as to what it should do it errors and tells > me, which is exactly what I want it to do. > > I've been a FreeBSD user for about 18 years and supported it > professionally for about 10. In this thread I've read a few posts that > contain blanket statements like "ports are broken" and "never work", I'm at > a loss as to how to respond to this as it is completely counter to my > experience. I wish I could see what they were talking about and figure > out what happened so I could understand what caused them to make such a > statement. It's like they're talking about a different OS than the one I > know. > > I've written a simple script to run portaudit and pop up a dialog with > check boxes that then kicks off portupgrade for the selected ports which > have issues. 99% of the time its that simple. This is what I want in a > server environment. I do not want things auto-updating (a.k.a. auto > breaking) or making decisions about supporting libraries behind my back. > PHP is a good and common example why: an upgrade can and does break web > sites that ran fine before. Updates need to be managed in a process which > is outside the scope of the OS (because its a server not a desktop). > FreeBSD has all these great tools for managing the mechanical action of > updating and imposes minimal process which is perfect because I have my own > process. And if things get mucked up (which mostly isn't the ports system > fault when it does happen), its easy to back out and re-do if needed. > > After reading this thread I am wondering if I should clean the update > dialog script up and submit to the ports tree. It seems like people think > the port update process is harder than it is because it lacks a Windows > Update like dialog which is essentially what this is akin to (and there > might be a port which does this already, too .. anyone?). All the hard > stuff has been done by the FreeBSD team, all I did was put a bash/dialog > script on it. > > I very rarely run into ports that don't build on supported versions of > FreeBSD (ie; ones that haven't reached EoL). I have a number of customers > with a few 6.2 boxes [which I can't wait to upgrade] and still almost > everything builds without tinkering. > > All of this is in the scope of servers though (web, DB, application, etc) > and not on the desktop. I haven't used a FreeBSD desktop since probably > 4.x, and while I don't begrudge the work people are doing for the desktop > experience it just doesn't apply to me nor is it why I love FreeBSD. I > won't say something like "you're running a server OS on your desktop and > expecting it to be like a Mac". What will say is: I'm getting from this > thread that a lot of the complaints people have seem to be based around the > desktop. My guess is that this is a super minority of actual use (by > server count). > > BUT: I feel like people are judging how fit an FreeBSD is for server work > by how easy/Mac/Windows/whatever like (as many Linux distros try to > emulate) it is to update. Not good ... but it makes sense from a > social/human perspective, and is probably another thing we should consider > in terms of advocacy. > > I'm interested in what people think about this, and yeah this should > probably be in the advocacy list but its not so thhblt :P > > Always I am stressing that to manage FreeBSD, a fair amount of expertise is required which I think this level may be reduced by improving the FreeBSD management by transferring knowledge to its managing parts ( for example : package management , repair of broken parts , installation steps to reach a state like in very easily usable Linux distributions such as Fedora , Mageia , Mandriva , and many others , etc. ) You know what to do by your expertise gained over use , which such an expertise is completely missing in a new comer , and even sometimes in very highly experienced computer professionals because a different operating system reduces them to a little experienced new starter . As an example : I have installed FreeBSD 9.0 amd64 Release . In root use , it is successfully mounting USB sticks and USB NTFS hard disks in KDE4 and GNOME . In user mode , it could NOT be possible either to automount USB sticks or NTFS USB hard disks . Obviously , everything is set how they are written in Handbook , but NOT working for ME . Dolphin is given a message pointing to HAL Policy Kit . When PolicyKit is searched , it is generating a very long file list which many of them are with the same name in different directories . One of them is responsible from the error message generation . Which one ? Look at the sources : To where ? Look at their web site : Nothing is there . They are working in GhostBSD . Which files are modified by GhostBSD which they are different ones in FreeBSD ? When number of related number of files are considered , it is very difficult to find the differences . After struggling with many fruitless steps , there remains ONLY another step : SWITCH to ANOTHER operating system . It should be remembered that struggling is a TIME EXPENSE and IT IS COSTED . Compare the cost of a Linux or Windows and personal time , and make a decision which one to choose . Another point frequently mentioned is that FreeBSD is leaned toward servers . Only I want to say that , "Please , install a CentOS , Debian , or Windows Server trial , and see how a server may be ..." Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk _______________________________________________ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
