Am 15.03.2013 06:11, schrieb Barry White: > Netzb ? I suspect you missed a critical part of the discussion. > It has never been about normal AR communications. > > It was about when the government authorities controlling an emergency > situation require us to transmit information such as lists of dead > victims or similar sensitive information and request encryption. Well, we both know that in this case, there are already existing systems that are ready for use. For example, the ''Harpoon'' - System, developed for the NATO by AEG/Telefunken, which is still today a leading Hardware Platform for secure radio communications without any other infrastructure:
Frequencies: 2 kHz - 30 kHz in 0,001 kHz - steps As you obviously know, these frequencies allow transcontinental connectivity (~ 6000km) without satellites due to Inonosperic reflection. These devices have been packed in suitcases, weighting about 8kg (including batteries) and allow autonomous transmission/recieving and encryption/decryption of messages as well as forwarding them... After my knowledge, Australia owns several of them due to their ANZUS - membership. So it seems very unlikely that they will use infrastructure owned by civilians (which applies to most hams! - Please correct me if I'm wrong!). In the case, they would need an encryption, they would do this via embedded hardware. In such cases, they apply the need-to-know - principle, and may earlier confiscate your entire ham - equipment rather than involving you, except you are in some sort of organization that may be given order to do so (e.g. police, fire-brigade, civil-defense, etc.)... Nevertheless, I don't see there any sense in implementing a technology while prohibiting the use of it for the general public. So if hams are not allowed to use encryption, and do not want to disobey their regulative authorities in this case, why should they then take care of this problem? For me, it seems ridiculous to do so if it is not intended to be used (with or without consent of authorities) in regular use. The fact, that encryption is banned for AR applications still feeds my theory that truly secure communication is not in the interest of governments, but I think this is going ''too much tinfoil hat'' for this mailing-list. Actually, I'm working on a solution for end-to-end encrypted telephony and data transmissions using Codec2 and other open-source software. In the end, it could operate paralell streams of voice and data, offering to split the bandwith 50:50 or offer the entire bandwith to one service. Seems quite hard, but ony Codec2 seems capable to keep bandwith low enough for usage via public phone booths (most acoustic couples only offer 2400 bit/s due to the microphone's - and speaker's quality, which is quite poor... Other codecs such as AMBE or MELP are patented and thereof are excluded for use. If someone is really interested in implementing them, he'll be able to do so on his own... The last one who developed such a hardware that allows encrypted telephony (and was planed to enable encrypted data transmissions, too) was murdered in 1998 by being hung with a steel cable, then cooled down in a fridge and hanged again in a park in the middle of Berlin. His name was ''TRON'' See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron_(hacker) for details... Yours sincerely, Netzblockierer > > Barry VK2AAB > Wicen Liason, Hornsby Kuringai Emergency Management Committee > > Netzblockierer wrote: >> I'm quite woundering why Encryption has been topic this late. >> >> It is possible to use an encryption. The most simple way would be a >> Diffie-Hellman Key-Exchange (even over-the-Air) and then using AES-256 >> bitwise; making a buffer of 256 bits before transmission necessary... >> >> But even if the entire encrypion would be specified and open-licensed >> alike Codec2, I do not believe that any regulatory authority, like the >> FCC, allows it... >> >> In Germany, the authorities forbid the usage of encryption on CB-Band; >> even when used on data transmission channels, saying that it cannot be >> identified by them or other users as intentional broadcast and may >> declare it as RF-noise and excessive disturbing of other frequency - >> users... >> >> It seems likewise the GSM [pseudo] 'encryption' A8/A5/A3, that such >> technology that truly provides security (GSM never has!) violates the >> ''Wassenaar Threaty'', by declaring, that it could be used by 'bad/wrong >> guys', too. >> >> In detail, when operating a CB-Gateway, it may be called an >> ''[Mobile/Wireless] Telephony Service Provider'' and automatically >> becomes subject to ''Lawful Interception'', that enforces the operator >> to decrypt all traffic and refuse the transmission of traffic that >> cannot be decrypted. >> >> However, implementing an encryption seems quite useful. >> >> >> Am 12.03.2013 21:44, schrieb Bruce Perens: >>> Hi Doug, >>> >>> Yes, I'd heard of this before. Our mission, this time, it authenticate >>> without obscuring the message content. So, chaffing probably won't be >>> part of the picture. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> >>> On 03/12/2013 12:56 PM, Douglas Quagliana wrote: >>>> Hi Bruce, >>>> >>>> Just to muddy the waters... there is a way to preserve confidentiality >>>> without >>>> using any encryption, but I don't know if this satisfies things like >>>> HIPPA. See >>>> >>>> http://people.csail.mit.edu/rivest/Chaffing.txt >>>> >>>> >From the above article: >>>> >>>>> In summary, we have introduced a new technique for confidentiality, >>>>> called ``chaffing and winnowing''. This technique can provide >>>>> excellent confidentiality of message contents without involving >>>>> encryption or steganography. >>>> Douglas >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. >>>> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics >>>> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: >>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_mar >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Freetel-codec2 mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freetel-codec2 >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. >>> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics >>> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_mar >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Freetel-codec2 mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freetel-codec2 >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> avast! 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So do we. > Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics > Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_mar > _______________________________________________ > Freetel-codec2 mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freetel-codec2 > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Eingehende Nachricht sauber. > Virus-Datenbank (VPS): 130315-0, 15.03.2013 > Getestet um: 15.03.2013 19:38:59 > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2013 AVAST Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_mar _______________________________________________ Freetel-codec2 mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freetel-codec2
