Thanks Gerhard,

You have some nice toys :-)

I am also seeing a PAPR in the range of 8.5dB (75/10).  This is curious
as when I measure the PAPR of the DSP signals in software, I get around
13dB.  Might have to revisit my sums, or how I measure peak/peak
envelope power.

800XA uses FSK, basically a sine wave, so PAPR should be around 3dB.

It's interesting how the waveforms (apart from 1600) are about the same,
2020 has 31 carriers, 700C/700D about 18.  We must be lucky to have some
of the phases add up the right way so the peaks aren't too high.

Cheers,
David

On 18/6/20 5:41 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> What I can contribute to this discussion is:
> 
> - For FreeDV operation on HF I am using normally 100 - 200 W average
> power. My PA is a 2,5 kW SSB type.
> 
> - I have now measured the average and peak powers using my WaveNode WN2
> and KF-8KW RF Sensor, but just using my transceiver, so without the PA:
> 
> mode  avg (W)         peak (W)        PAPR (dB)
> 1600  1.5     20.8    11,4
> 2020  1.9     13.4    8,5
> 700C  1.7     12.9    8,8
> 700D  1.6     12.2    8,8
> 800XA         7.2     10.4    1,6
> 
>  
> 
> Maybe that helps.
> 
> 73's
> 
> Gerhard OE3GBB
> 
> 
> Am 18.06.2020 09:40, schrieb David Rowe:
> 
>> Hi Take,
>>
>> On HF channels OFDM is a neat solution to multipath problems like delay
>> spread and frequency selective fading. Single carrier modems are
>> possible but require a different design, in particular an equaliser to
>> handle the channel.
>>
>> As Hams tend to have SSB radios, they are already designed for waveforms
>> (like analog SSB) that already have significant PAPR.  So OFDM is
>> reasonable fit to available hardware, despite the PAPR issues.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> On 18/6/20 10:20 am, Tsutsumi Takehiko wrote:
>>> Hi Glen,
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> What is your position of Single-carrier FDMA or LP-OFDMA technology
>>> compare to PARP reduction scheme which you have rich experience in your
>>> memo?
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> I wonder why radio amateur society leaves PARP issue untouched when they
>>> adopt OFDM technology.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Does it comes from SSB experience which has about 5dB PARP?
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> take
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> de JA5AEA
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Windows 10 版のメール <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>か
>>> ら送信
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *差出人: *Glen English <mailto:[email protected]
>>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
>>> *送信日時: *Wednesday, June 17, 2020 8:09 AM
>>> *宛先: *[email protected]
>>> <mailto:*[email protected]>
>>> <mailto:[email protected]
>>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
>>> *件名: *Re: [Freetel-codec2] FreeDV Tx power
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Hi David
>>>
>>> I've been across OFDM PAPR reduction development for many years.
>>>
>>> Most successful simple schemes involve some sort of selective mapping or
>>> bit flipping.
>>>
>>> -IE the PAPR is computed and an alternative trajectory is generated .
>>>
>>> -These can be either tweaking the source bitstream slightly (many
>>> methods)
>>>
>>> -and also providing overmapping of the constellation (say 64 QAM points
>>> might only map to 48 unique symbols, giving the system a choice of some
>>> other point that can convey the same data.
>>>
>>> -and also deliberate FEC violation (modify the most encoded code and
>>> remove/reduce the offenders)
>>>
>>> -and also selective bit flipping - easy and fast.
>>>
>>> I would encourage some form of PAPR reduction for any ham OFDM
>>> development.
>>>
>>> Without it, OFDM is often and (and ignorantly) overdriven creating
>>> spectrum headaches for adjacent channel users
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> -glen
>>>
>>> On 17/06/2020 07:33, David Rowe wrote:
>>>
>>>     Hello List,
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>     I've been working with Peter, VK3RV on the surprisingly tricky
>>> problem
>>>
>>>     of measuring FreeDV Tx power.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>     Over the weekend I built an inline "sampler" and tried a few
>>> averaging
>>>
>>>     options to measure the power of a 700D waveform on my spec-an.  I am
>>>
>>>     using my IC7200 with the drive adjusted so that the ALC just
>>> moves.  I
>>>
>>>     am sampling the power between the IC7200 and my ATU, which is
>>> connected
>>>
>>> to a dipole on 40M.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Freetel-codec2 mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freetel-codec2
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
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