I get it. I've ran Codans with twelp :-) I live in the middle of the US and
there are still plenty of places, just miles from major cities, that cellular
disappears.
I was simply offering a somewhat correlated commentary on my personal
experience with other hams in reference to dv. There are very few who actually
desire to have reliable comms.
Given the wall to wall noise I hear on HF and the utter disregard for band
planning, I don't see much movement. I for one, do not support the ARRL and
I'll leave it at that.
I've sought out other organizations that have wants and needs more aligned with
my interests - which don't face archaic symbol rate limits and as you mention
HF repeater bans.
I used to see amateur radio as a place to experiment, but I gave up on that
decades ago. I can expend my energy actually making progress rather than
fighting bureaucracy.
There are places where P25 and TWELP crossband for example, I just can't say
where.
The most significant issue with an HF repeater is that propagation may result
in increased noise levels. Unless specifically designed to operate via ground
wave, which in a valley has the same issue as VHF or NVIS, I don't see a lot of
support. I run an NVIS configuration at home for example and even with an
antenna that is optimized for high take off (vertical) designed for reliable
comms to 250 miles, I still have excellent 700-1500 mile performance. Putting
an NVIS site in somewhere like Cobar would potentially cover a significant
portion of NSW. If you are running Codan, a remote base is incredibly easy to
do. Then your ops centers on the coast would have IP access and treat it like a
VHF radio. Or, 3 sites would offer near complete coverage of the territory in
the worst of conditions.
Matt
On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 03:03:01 PM CST, Al Beard
<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Mooneer, Matt and all,
We in Australia have both vast areas and valley locations where VHF/UHF and
cell-phone systemsare not usable, but comms to HQ is still needed.
So, our NSW country ambulances are NOW fitted with HF Digital radios with the
TWELP (r) protocol.
Here in Australia, we have the ACMA who sets our regulations. We hams negotiate
with them via our WIA.
Can I ask you amateurs in, whatever country, to ask via your ARRL etc. your FCC
etc. to reconsider "HF repeaters",as these regulations stem from the WWII
years? That's what I've been asking for the last year but not spelling it out
directly.
"digital" means, a receiving device CAN determine what is needed to be done
with this signal or data stream.This technology was not practical back before
available microprocessors.
Alan VK2ZIW
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 10:52:49 -0800, Mooneer Salem wrote
> Hi Matt,
>
> I think it might depend on the area. Around here, DMR seems to be the most
> used of the digital voice modes, followed by System Fusion. HF digital voice,
> of course, is less constrained by local adoption. :)
>
> (On that note, DMR in general has seen a lot of popularity (209,000 unique
> DMR IDs per https://www.radioid.net/), possibly due to how inexpensive it can
> be to get started. For example, there are DMR handhelds under $100; even the
> more expensive ones like the Anytone D878 aren't that crazy compared to some
> of the more expensive Japanese HTs.)
>
> Anyway, I think FreeDV 2020 mode is pretty good quality-wise; it just has
> issues with working in less than good propagation conditions. Fortunately
> David Rowe has been working on improvements to 2020 that should help in that
> regard.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Mooneer K6AQ
>
> On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 7:26 AM Matt via Freetel-codec2
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> In my area, there is a definitive divide between those who want to use
> digital voice (VHF+) and those who don't. Interestingly, in the past 2 years,
> I've seen an overall decline in dv users. It's complicated and latent.
> Especially with "older" (40+) who have used ssb voice, they don't like the
> delay with digital. I listen to a group on ssb and they are like 60wpm cw,
> they also frequent an FM repeater that has no tail and there are times where
> the repeater never drops - you simply can't do that on any of the digital
> modes, it's just too slow.
>
> DV on HF, has little to no appeal to a lot of folks. They are here as a
> hobby, not to ensure 100% comms. It's analogous to 1980's long distance vs
> todays cell phone. We had toll quality voice 40 years ago, that rode a 64kbps
> channel, and yet today we still don't have the same quality, and in many
> cases using multiple times the bandwidth. How is it that we have portable
> super computers that can't deliver equivalent service that a previously
> passive end point could? A lot of people don't want to trade reliability at a
> loss of more natural speech.
>
> There are a lot of modes. I haven't been on DV HF recently due to those
> others.... gone are the days of just cw or ssb. The buffet of modes we have
> today certainly dilutes the pool of potential users using any given mode.
> What would it be like if the only non-voice mode was FT8? Pandemonium?
> Instead, I look at pskreporter and see more than 80 listed types - and that
> isn't an all inclusive list.
>
> EIGHTY. Let that simmer for a bit. And that doesn't include much outside of
> HF. No DMR, P25, NXDN, C4FM, or PMR. "Have it your way" probably needs to be
> the new amateur slogan.
>
> Matt AL0R
>
> On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 03:35:09 AM CST, Mooneer Salem
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Al,
>
> As much as it would be nice if everyone was using some sort of digital voice
> mode, that's pretty unlikely any time soon. What would be good is if there's
> a pattern among people already using SSB/AM/FM voice and refusing to/stopping
> use of digital voice; that could be used to drive further improvements and
> convince others to give it a try.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Mooneer K6AQ
>
> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 4:03 PM Al Beard <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi all,
I just got a reply from a computer literate ham doing Q65 a mode
from the WSJT suite saying, no interest in Digital Voice.
What is the point of our Amateur Radio in NOT looking at communications,
sending useful messages.
Though I do do some meteor scatter which only transmits callsigns and signal
strengths, I see a real need for semi-secure messaging, either text or voice.
Especially when this can help others eg. WICEN (emergency comms).
Or comms from otherwise remote locations.
---------------------------------------------------
Alan VK2ZIW
Before the Big Bang, God, Sela.
OpenWebMail 2.53, nothing in the cloud.
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---------------------------------------------------
Alan VK2ZIW
Before the Big Bang, God, Sela.
OpenWebMail 2.53, nothing in the cloud.
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