*let's be mindful of apples for apples*
while there might be a "6dB SNR gain", the transmitter backoff for the
complex modulation schemes takes some of that away.
Typically , hard processed SSB might well generated in a 4.5dB peak to
average ratio. . IE 35W RMS for your 100W PEP PA.
and in these cases, most humans can comfortably manage copy in a 0 to
3dB SNR, and a good operator with headphones at -3dB (2400 Hz BW)
So, it's important for comparisons, to consider link budgets for a
particular sized transmitter.
Certainly the FeeDV waveforms perform very well in a low SNR condition
*And again, hard to compare apples with apples because the FreeDV
result can be very much easier to copy. *
What's important, I think, *is that we dont trade off difficult of copy
due to noise and interference ( SSB), with difficult copy due to speech
processing artifacts (low bit rate speech codecs) .*
Additionally, syllabic loss in SSB is generally more copyable that loss
of syllables in a low bit rate voice codec due to the hard loss nature
of digital speech codecs.
That's an area probably of some fruit - improving concealment of loss of
syllables with digital codecs so that the degradtion is more analog (as
we are analog beasts).
I think RADE does quite well here compared to old codecs like AMBE....
73 Glen VK1XX
On 21/09/2026 22:05, Helmut Oeller via Freetel-codec2 wrote:
... further development is always wise and neccessary. But we need no
KISS or LITE approaches. FreeDV competes primarily with SSB. Due to
today' s excellent natural sound of RADE, especially also of RADE V2,
more and more hams stream into the freeDV camp. 5 - 6 dB SNR gain
compared with SSB is another strong argument for DXer. Three of these
powerful freeDV channels inside the bandwidth of one SSB channel is
real innovation and performance. Don't reduce these benfits.
73, Helmut, DC6NY
Am 20.09.2026 um 22:45 schrieb Bruce Perens via Freetel-codec2:
Some recent ham radio digital voice CODEC development which I have
guided the AI through:
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