I, too, can make an argument for the validity of induction; However, that's not the point.
I wanted to hear Doug;s Nick -----Original Message----- From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Russell Standish Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 11:22 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Just as a bye-the-way When we put it in a computer, it works. My email spam filter (spamassassin) uses a machine induction technique called Bayesian networks. It is remarkably effective at keeping spam out, and learning, in the process, what I consider to be spam. In order to persuade me that induction is invalid, you would need to explain why the above is not an example of induction. I have read David Deutsch's books where takes a swinging hammer to induction. I found these to be less than convincing. Moreover, the examples he gives of induction (and of induction failing) seem very similar to the spamassasin example above (which also fails, from time-to-time, as the occasional spam gets through). I have been on the lists Fabric of Reality and Beginning of Infinity, until I got kicked off for the suspected crime of being a Bayesian epistemologist, where such discussions have taken place, with the anti-induction crowd providing little substance other than to suggest read tomes and tomes of Popper, which I'm unlikely to do without a compelling reason. Surely, if induction is so incoherent, it can be demolished effectively in 100 words or less. BTW - I do agree with Deutsch that conjecture and refutation is a superior way of gaining knowledge, than what I would call induction. But it seems that to say induction doesn't exist or doesn't work is going too far. On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 10:42:15PM -0600, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > So, Doug, explain to me how you come to believe in the validity of > induction? > > > > From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On > Behalf Of Douglas Roberts > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 2:43 PM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Just as a bye-the-way > > > > So, for reference: a 2X intelligence delta that we have all probably > experienced, perhaps without knowing it, would be from talking with a > person who had an IQ of 70, followed by engaging with a person having a140 IQ. > > I will ignore quibbles about the accuracy of IQ as an intelligence > measure for the purpose of this discussion. > > I suspect the less intelligent person truely believes the religious > dogma he's been taught. No ambiguity: true belief. > > I've observed that the more intelligent people put part of their > intellect to sleep when it comes to religion. They call this process > "taking it as an article of faith" when one of the irrational elements > of their religion is brought into the spotlight. > > So the question that I would have, were we all to suddenly evolve 2X > intelligence is: to what extent would we collectively be willing to > suspend our intelligent thought processes in order to continue to > believe religious bullshit? > > Working from my phone today... > > -Doug > > Sent from Android. > > On Mar 23, 2012 1:58 PM, "Robert J. Cordingley" > <rob...@cirrillian.com> > wrote: > > For starters what would you consider to be good and bad - assuming you > are still a human being, with human interests at least? It's a > problem because I haven't premised whether you have infinite knowledge > to go with the infinite intelligence 'cos the two together is/are > looking like an omni-something being etc. > > Ok, so let's assume humans evolve collectively to be 2x or 10x more > intelligent than now. How would society change? Would anyone vote > for Republicans? or Democrats? Would we even have a voting system? > Would the jails be empty? > > Thanks > Robert C > > On 3/23/12 1:23 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote: > > Good question about infinite intelligence. Try to even frame a > reference for answering that one. > > Sent from Android. > > On Mar 23, 2012 12:14 PM, "Robert J. Cordingley" > <rob...@cirrillian.com> > wrote: > > I'm told many find comfort in the teachings of <insert your spiritual > leader > here>. I thought it odd/insightful that Joseph Cambell > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_campbell> found the same core > message in the world's major religious teachings. I can believe moral > atheists share the same core teachings. Then there are those from all > persuasions that hijack a religion for their own purposes: political > or financial power > - they can all burn in hell! :) But hey if it works even as a social > phenomenon, i.e. allows one to enjoy life and live longer and die in > peace, can we knock it? > > Otherwise I must congratulate Father Doug in becoming a man of the > cloth at the CotFSM <http://www.venganza.org/> and following in a > long line of inspired spiritual teachers. I liked the bit about ' we > are anti-crazy nonsense done in the name of religion.' (see the About page). Noodle on. > > Thanks, > Robert C > PS What would you believe if you had infinite intelligence? R > > On 3/22/12 11:31 PM, Russ Abbott wrote: > > Doug, I don't want to pick on you, but your certificate strikes me as > indirect bullying. > > > > I'm as atheistic as they come, but I know a number of people who (for > reasons that I don't understand) take religion quite seriously. They > are intelligent, pleasant people, not the sort to rub their beliefs in > anyone's face. Most are politically left of center. One has a bumper > sticker that reads "A proud member of the religious left". > > > > Why pick on them? I'm sure you don't intend to. I'm sure you are > making fun of the Rick Santorums of the world. It's just that by > casting as wide a net as the Flying Spaghetti Monster does, it also > makes fun of everyone with religious feelings. > > > > The answer someone like Sam Harris would give is that what they say is > either false or without any shred of objective support. But the people > I'm thinking of don't go around proclaiming their beliefs as The > Truth. They go about their business simply wanting to experience the > world through a different lens. The fact that I don't understand it -- > and I don't; I'm completely mystified by their way of thinking about > certain things -- doesn't give me the right to ridicule it. > > > > Sorry for the rant. > > > > > -- Russ > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 8:07 PM, Douglas Roberts > <d...@parrot-farm.net> > wrote: > > Don't want my FRIAM friends and acquaintances to be the last to know: > > > > If you feel like getting married, I can now conduct the ceremony. > > > > "With this rigatoni, I thee wed, etc." > > > > -Father Doug > > > > > -- > Doug Roberts > drobe...@rti.org > d...@parrot-farm.net > > http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins > > > 505-455-7333 - Office > 505-670-8195 - Cell > > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > http://www.friam.org > > > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > http://www.friam.org > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > http://www.friam.org > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > http://www.friam.org > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > http://www.friam.org > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > http://www.friam.org -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
