But Jochen... now you are begging the question. Even if it is true, as you argue, that real-life gun training and violent video games cause problems IN TROUBLED TEENS, the obvious conclusion would be to try to produce fewer troubled teens! If you fix that, you don't need to regulate legitimate safety training or entertainment.
I live in central Pennsylvania. Most every student in my classes has been trained in gun use. They grew up in the video-game age, so most have played violent video games. I can assure you I don't feel at risk around any of them. The idea that we should engage in cultural warfare that REALLY DOES go against the fabric of local communities, in the desperate hope to avoid an infrequent and unpredictable tragedy is seriously flawed. Since this discussion has spilled over onto the list, I will add that there really are <https://my.psychologytoday.com/blog/fixing-psychology/201212/making-sense-the-sense-making>. Eric On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 04:35 PM, Jochen Fromm <j...@cas-group.net> wrote: > >> > >>The NYTimes has a nice article about this balderdash >>http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/opinion/collins-looking-for-america.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0 >> > >>What I found interesting is how the whole can be different from the parts: >>first-person shooters alone are harmless, shooting clubs or sports as well, >>but the combination of both can apparently be toxic for troubled teenagers. A >>bit like a chemical reaction. >> > >>-J. >> > >> > >>>Sent from Android >James Steiner <gregortr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >I think this line of reasoning ("using guns and violent games make people go >crazy and shoot people, therefore, restricting access (even more) to guns and >games will make less people shoot people. ") is balderdash. > > > >Correlation is not causation. > > >Guns and games did not make the person troubled. > > >There are many teens/adults who have access to both real and virtual gun sport >who do *not* shoot up schools, malls, or post offices. This is demonstrated by >the simple fact of the millions of sales of both guns and gun games every >year, compared to the lack of millions (or even dozens) of mass shooting >murders every year. > > > >Likewise, the wild success of Angry Birds did not create a run on slingshots, >nor cause a single undesired building demolition. > > >While we're theorizing without rigor, I assert that access to gun sport and >virtual violent games provides a healthy outlet for acting out violent >feelings, and working out frustrations. > > >Sans guns, we might have had a stabbing, a homemade bomb, or perhaps something >else. Note the school mass *stabbing* in China the same day, with 22 people >stabbed. Granted, no deaths reported. I guess that's a comfort? > > > >See also, the patriarchy, which teaches that violent outburst is an >appropriate form of expression--for men. > > >Note that in 30 years, 61 of 62 gun-using US mass murderers have been men. >[see Mother Jones, July 2012, for criteria and sources] > > >And that suggests another key point: these incidents are rare: just 62 in 30 >years. Each has it's own particular and peculiar circumstances. To pick just >one thing they may have in common, then assert that "fixing" that one thing >will prevent any future incident is, at best, naive, and in other proportions >arrogant, lazy, and disingenuous. > > > >Perhaps it's true that there can be no shootings if there are no guns, but >that is never going to happen, without a perfect descent into utter fascism. >In any case, as long as there are people who want to kill people, people will >find a way to do it. So we must look in another direction. Like a way to help >people *not* want to kill people. > > > >~~James > > >On Dec 16, 2012 2:08 PM, "Jochen Fromm" <<#>> wrote: > >> > >> > >> The recent shooting at Sandy Hook, Conneticut, > >> reminded me of the shooting in Winnenden 3 years ago. > >> In 2009, a teenager killed 15 people at a School > >> in southern Germany. It turned out his father owned > >> many guns legally and took him occasionally to a shooting > >> club. The son played frequently shooting games like > >> "Counter Strike". The combination of learning to > >> kill people in virtual worlds and learning to shoot > >> in the real world was toxic for the young troubled > >> teenager. > >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting> > >> > >> The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting now > >> seems to be similar: the mother owned many guns > >> legally and used them, she went through target > >> shooting with her son. The son apparently liked > >> violent video games (probably first-person shooter > >> as well). Again the combination of learning to kill > >> people in virtual worlds and learning to shoot in the > >> real world was toxic for the young person and > >> certainly contributed to the disaster > >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting> > >> > >> If we want to prevent these shootings happening > >> again, then we must either make it much harder > >> for children to go to shooting clubs and to > >> participate in shooting sport, or we must make it > >> much harder for underage persons to get first-person > >> shooter games. Or both. What do you think? > >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_sport> > >> > >> -J. > ============================================================ >FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > ------------ Eric Charles Assistant Professor of Psychology Penn State University Altoona, PA 16601
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