Trump's incompetence and his malignant narcissism *both* make him dangerous in the position of president.
Were you referring to me when you wrote "yapping"? :-) --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 5:22 PM uǝlƃ ☣ <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: > More on 2 types: > > Vulnerable and Grandiose Narcissism Are Differentially Associated With > Ability and Trait Emotional Intelligence > https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2018.01606/full > > Vulnerable Vs Grandiose Narcissism: Which Is More Harmful? > > https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-mysteries-love/201906/vulnerable-vs-grandiose-narcissism-which-is-more-harmful > > The first article is more credible, I suppose. It seems to my incompetent > eye to describe 2 different *subclinical* types. But the second article is > more provocative to me because it talks about an *oscillation* in clinical > (as opposed to subclinical) NPD, which kindasorta echoes what I tried to > say about modes and rates. > > But what's most interesting, I guess, is that Dunning-Kruger might be at > play. Where a narcissist might be incompetent, she might over-estimate her > skills (at emotional intelligence as well as whatever else) [†]. The > distinction between "trait EI" and "ability EI" is lost on me, however. So > I can't quite parse the ending statements of the first paper. I can > definitely parse the part about it being an online survey. 8^) > > > [†] We might infer that Trump's narcissism is NOT the problem. It's his > sheer incompetence that's the problem. So all this yapping about him being > a narcissist might be, at best, wasted breath and, at worst, a red herring > distracting from the real problem. > > On 4/27/20 12:03 PM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote: > > Sorry for any overemphasis. I was merely *wondering if* there might be 2 > types. I was inferring it partly from the Alternate model in the DSM 5 and > partly from my own sense that the way people talk about them is > contradictory. Your quote from Kernberg only hints at it. > > > > Being episodic, myself, I could see how there would not be two *types*, > but perhaps two *modes*. 1) defining one's self-esteem based on others' > adulation (external locus) and 2) defining one's self-esteem based on some > internal urgic homunculus (internal locus). If it's modal, then the same > person might display (1) and (2) depending on the time, space, or context, > leading to an apparent contradiction in the arching narrative/ephemeris, > but resolving it by slicing up into episodes. And if it's a *speed* or rate > thing (like fast/slow thinking), then it's plausible that (1) iterates > rapidly while (2) iterates slowly. > > > > I'll take a look at the Kernberg book. Thanks! > > > > On 4/27/20 11:53 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote: > >> Does this quote from Kernberg have to do with your feeling that there > are two types of narcissist: > >> > >> > >> In general their relationships with other people are clearly exploitive > and sometimes parasitic. It is as if they feel they have the right to > control and possess others and to exploit them without guilt feelings--and > behind a surface which very often is charming and engaging, one senses > coldness and ruthlessness. > >> Very often such patients are considered to be dependent because they > need so much tribute and adoration from others but on a deeper level they > are completely unable really to depend on anybody because of their deep > distrust and depreciation of others. > >> > >> --- > >> Frank C. Wimberly > >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 > >> 505 670-9918 > >> Santa Fe, NM > >> > >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020, 12:42 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com > <mailto:wimber...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >> I think I said that person's with NPD are almost psychotic. I > checked with my wife, a very experienced clinician, and she says that is > not correct. But she also says that there are not two types. One > interesting thing that she said is that her mentor, a training analyst, > said that after treating a narcissist for many years you can uncover a > severe obsessional personality at which point you have to start again to > treat that. That implies a treatment length that only someone like Woody > Allen can afford. I'm not saying that he's a malignant narcissist. > >> > >> I am speaking over my head but obviously DSM-V may oversimplify. > >> > >> My wife says that the book I mentioned, "Analysis of the Self" by > Kohut is not as good as "Borderline Conditions and Pathological Narcissism" > by Otto Kernberg. > > > > > > > > -- > ☣ uǝlƃ > > .-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... > .... . ... > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... .... . ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
