Nick is a big fan of scientific story - at least "popular science" conveyed with stories - ala "Private Lives of Garden Birds" by Calvin Simonds.
davew On Tue, May 19, 2020, at 10:13 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Steve, > > Re stories, that’s probably why I was drawn to Darwinism. Every Darwinian > explanation, no matter how sophisticated, is a story, a historical narrative, > arising from plausible suppositions about the way things were. Last time I > read the literature, the mitochondrial data on humans suggested that we arose > from a single, smallish, group in southern Africa. If that’s not an > idiographic (as opposed to nomothetic) account, I don’t know what is. > > Nick > Nicholas Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > Clark University > [email protected] > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 9:04 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere... > > Nick - > I *like* this kind of anecdotal/vernacular science. I think Glen might refer > to these stories/ideas as "just so stories" because they seem to be post-hoc > fitting of simple yet in some sense apt models to anecdotal data gathered > ad-hoc but widely. I think I understand (and agree) with his (implied) > judgment of them as being "real science" but they smack of something more > than "wishful thinking", maybe "whimsical thinking"? And a sort of > proto-science. Or a collective form of knowledge/wisdom formation which lacks > the formal rigor of modern science. Related to what Dave appeals to with us > perhaps in Jung and other ideas of collective consciousness. A step away from > believing that the cosmos and everyday life are ordered by a (the) > angry/benevolent god(esses) toward believing something perhaps equally > absurd, that everything is ordered by mathematics. > My father was second-generation college educated... with a BS in biology > preparing him for an advanced degree in Forestry (soil and range science), > and his parents before him both held BS degrees in Geology. But they were all > still rooted in a style of understanding the world (minerals, plants and > animals, and people) which was roughly animistic... they all still lived > physically close to the earth and virtually all of their relatives were still > living in the hills and hollers of Appalachia. This could easily explain why > I "like" the anecdotal/vernacular and distrust the *over* application of > mathematics. > I've rattled on before about the *explanatory* power of models and the > hypotheses they embody vs *predictive* or *communicative* or *descriptive* or > even *inspirational*. These are not orthogonal, but I think still useful... a > "descriptive" model of the utlity/power of scientific thinking/modeling? > - Steve > FWIW... re: Jon's report on their nutritive value, my young chickens (6 weeks > today?) have been foraging in our courtyard for about a week during the day. > At first they showed significant interest in the flies that would occasion > their feeder, but seemed to learn quickly that they were not fast enough to > catch them, and soon discovered the myriad ground insects that they could > find by pecking and scratching. I was sitting on a low wall next to a couple > of them... they seem to like the company of humans and will come close and do > their foraging near me, even though I rarely hand feed them. I looked down > and one was swallowing a very large grey-brown object which I am now sure was > a miller. The miller moth infestation/epidemic/peak at my house (near the Rio > Grande) seems to have lagged that of the one in Santa Fe and even just up the > Pojoaque Valley where people have been reporting the deluge for weeks. Ours > just started a few days ago. > Speaking of anecdotal and just-so science stories. I find it fascinating to > note that these birds, supposedly not THAT removed from their wild ancestors > are constructed from a single *large enough to eat for breakfast* egg-cell in > about 20 days and emerge almost fully able to survive alone (though they > benefit from the warmth and protection and guidance of a mother hen, or some > people with a heat-lamp and some agri-industrially formulated food and our > own curiosity). And then, not too much later, they begin to "shed an egg" > nearly daily (if you keep taking them away) which if fertilized, would repeat > the construction, growth process right in front of my eyes. Aside from their > daily egg-gift, I look forward to their help in insect control in my > garden.... I can tolerate many pests in the garden but some years we get > grasshoppers and squash bugs, each who can decimate a crop. > I've always enjoyed watching the Sphynx/Hummingbird moths around the > homestead, but did not know their larval form was the "dreaded" tomato worm. > Last year, I was surprised to see that along with my tomatoes, they had > discovered the volunteer datura that come up here and there around the > property and two or three had ganged up on one plant and stripped it bare of > leaves. I wondered at how their metabolism handled the kind of alkaloids that > humans (and cattle?) experience as "loco weed". The datura, with it's heavily > cholorphylled and thick stems seemed to survive just fine and put out a fresh > bounty of (smaller?) leaves and returned to it's course of producing flowers > to be pollinated by (also the sphynx?) and then a seedpod to lead to this > year's surprise sprouts?! >> Hi, Merle, >> >> Are you sure it’s not 19 years? The standard “take” on insect eruptions is >> (used to be?) that they occur on a cycle of prime numbers to make it harder >> for creatures with shorter cycles to “track” them. See >> https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/the-cicadas-love-affair-with-prime-numbers >> for a pretty thin introduction to the idea. >> >> N >> >> Nicholas Thompson >> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >> Clark University >> [email protected] >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> >> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Merle Lefkoff >> *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2020 10:01 PM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere... >> >> My son in Boulder says they get the "infestation" right on the dot every 20 >> years. >> >> They are also important pollinators. >> >> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 9:57 PM Jon Zingale <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Wow, they are everywhere! According to wikipedia: >>> >>> Army cutworms are one of the richest foods for predators, such as brown >>> bears <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_bear>, in this ecosystem, where >>> up to 72 per cent of the moth's body weight is fat, thus making it more >>> calorie-rich than elk or deer.[10] >>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_cutworm#cite_note-10> This is the >>> highest known body fat percentage of any animal.[11] >>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_cutworm#cite_note-11> >>> >>> And according to the New Mexican: >>> >>> `... they do not carry disease, Formby said, and they’re not the type of >>> moth that will get into your clothes closet and start shredding your new >>> camel hair jacket.` >>> >>> >>> -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . >>> ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> -- >> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy >> emergentdiplomacy.org >> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 >> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff >> >> -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... >> ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... > ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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