Gary Actually I agree with you to a considerable extent.
Let us consider Edward's book, On Amazon-India his book (the 7th edn) is available to us at a Kindle price of approx $9.50. Amazon sells the same Kindle book in China at $45 and at $155+ for Kindle in the USA. What does this suggest to you ? For me it's that the authors are not making the profits - Jeff Bezos &Co. do Now to come back to the question of why prices in India are affordable, it's because we have (had ?) a few activist judges who ensured that India's constitutional status as a *socialist* state means the needs of the many (parasites ?) takes priority over the profits of the producers (creators). The prices of most life-saving *quality* drugs in India are probably 1/20th of what you would pay in the States. That's because the same court enforced our nation's sovereign rights under TRIPS/CUTS/WTO agreements etc . When I read about poor people in USA not being able to afford their next insulin shot because it's so darn expensive, you may like to know that a 30 shot insulin Flexpen costs about $5 while the same manufacturer sells the identical pen for 20 times the price in New York. Sarbajit On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 6:09 AM Gary Schiltz <g...@naturesvisualarts.com> wrote: > No offense to the government of your country, but just because its courts > have judged it to be legal, doesn't make it right. Of course "right" is a > subjective, moral concept, and I hasten to add that morality is relative > and personal. Additionally, I don't know how subject other countries are to > the pronouncements of a particular country's judgments. I'll leave that to > the United Nations. But in the case of copyrights, my own view of what is > right is that the availability for copying of material should ideally be in > the hands of the author. My two cents worth. > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 7:11 PM Sarbajit Roy <sroy...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I got your book from here >> >> https://www.pdfdrive.com/interactive-computer-graphics-a-top-down-approach-with-webgl-edward-angel-and-dave-d38281420.html >> >> The Indian judgment is clear, Reproduction is limited to a copy which the >> teacher/institute has LEGALLY purchased. >> >> There are other judgments from the same court directing that thousands of >> infringing movie piracy websites (and their whack-a-mole clones) are >> blocked in India for copyright violation and harm caused to producers. >> >> https://globalfreedomofexpression.columbia.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Utv_Software_Communication_Ltd._..._vs_1337X.To_And_Ors_on_10_April_2019-1.pdf >> >> Sarbajit >> >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 5:17 AM Edward Angel <an...@cs.unm.edu> wrote: >> >>> Thanks but the story is more complex. >>> >>> What transpired is in retrospect somewhat amusing. I received an email >>> from someone at a university that was using the book asking if I knew there >>> was a ps file on the web of the whole book. I checked it out, contacted the >>> instructor who had it taken down. I had no idea how anyone had obtained a >>> perfect copy of the book. Even during copyediting, I never was given access >>> to a final ps version with even the typesetting marks. My editor started a >>> big investigation at Pearson to see who had violated security during >>> production only to find out after weeks that the people at Pearson who >>> dealt with accessibility issues were sending out the file to every school >>> that adopted the book (at the time around 200 just in the US). >>> >>> What is odd to me is that the last time I checked libgen.io, which was >>> a while ago, the version there was not a ps version put a pdf in which you >>> could use the TOC interactively so I figured it was the kindle version >>> which my editor, who had become somewhat expert at this, showed me how easy >>> it is to get the kindle version. Apparently what is the the situation now >>> is that the ps version is libgen.is so someone else must have uploaded >>> it. >>> >>> The material on the Indian decision on respect to fair use was very >>> interesting. I was familiar with the fair use policies in the U.S. and the >>> U.K. In spirit, they are the same. However, the problem is not fair use but >>> with sites like libgen, where anyone can upload a file irrespective of >>> copyright or ownership That file is then available worldwide to everyone. >>> Consequently, the holders of the copyright have no protection at all other >>> than some people having ethical issues with libgen. Sadly, I find many of >>> my colleagues and students do not see this as an ethical issue. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> _______________________ >>> >>> Ed Angel >>> >>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory >>> (ARTS Lab) >>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico >>> >>> 1017 Sierra Pinon >>> Santa Fe, NM 87501 >>> 505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu >>> 505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel >>> >>> On Jul 5, 2020, at 4:14 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Edward >>> >>> The PDF of the 7th edition of your book being widely circulated was very >>> likely not generated from its Kindle version, but from the Postscript >>> version used to print your book. It was generated using Adobe Distiller 7+ >>> for a Macintosh. Must have been cloned from one of those unwatermarked >>> copies dished out by your publisher's marketing team to "potential" >>> customers. >>> >>> Sarbajit >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 2:52 AM Edward Angel <an...@cs.unm.edu> wrote: >>> >>>> I’ve been a book author since 1972 and a textbook author since 1989. My >>>> computer graphics textbook has been the most popular book in the area for >>>> 20 years and just came out in its eighth edition with various editions >>>> being available in Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Russian. Sadly, the book >>>> business has changed over that time; changed in way that is bad for almost >>>> everyone, especially authors. I think you’re faced with a lot of bad >>>> choices. I hope some of the following will prove helpful. And if not >>>> helpful, at least interesting. >>>> >>>> Before I forget, you might enjoy reading of my adventures writing the >>>> first edition of my present textbook while on sabbatical in Venezuela, >>>> Ecuador, Hong Kong and Nepal. There’s a pointer to it on my home page >>>> www.cs.unm.edu/~angel >>>> >>>> When I had to pick a publisher, I knew the editors and local book reps >>>> at Academic Press, Addison-Wesley, Prentice Hall and Benjamin/Cummings. >>>> They dominated the CS field and did so largely because they had editors who >>>> knew the field, excellent book reps who knew the needs of the faculty and >>>> students, a willingness to invest in a book, and in-house production. None >>>> of these exist anymore and, as Tom pointed out, you're largely on your own. >>>> It’s unfortunate if you care about how many copies get sold and your >>>> royalties. I have many friends who self-published in the past. It’s a lot >>>> of work either way but I prefer to put my effort into content and not >>>> type-setting or marketing. None of my self-published friends have ever sold >>>> many books. >>>> >>>> I had three excellent editors over 20 years. When I did my first >>>> edition, my editor hired a development editor at great expense to improve >>>> the quality of my writing. She worked with the CS faculty and grad students >>>> at Caltech and Stanford. It made a huge difference. Now almost none of >>>> these jobs exist within the publishers. All production is contracted out to >>>> the low bidders (art, typesetting, copy editing, etc) most of whom are in >>>> India. I no longer have an editor. There is one person working for the >>>> publusher with whom I communicate with to try to get things done correctly >>>> with the contractors. This last edition has been a long painful experience. >>>> >>>> So what happened? Books were always expensive for students, especially >>>> when sold through college bookstores. Then used book sellers appeared and >>>> Asian students started importing low cost Asian versions of the standard >>>> textbooks. Under US copyright laws, both are legal. The publishers >>>> responded by upping prices which reduced sales even more. >>>> >>>> And then came electronic media. At first, my book, like most others, >>>> was still print-only. But the publisher sent perfect unwatermarked pdfs to >>>> all the schools what adopted the book for use by students with special >>>> needs. Wasn’t long before those pdfs made it to the Web. Then they had a >>>> electronic version and a kindle version that students could rent for a >>>> semester or year. The publisher, the largest in the business, was clueless >>>> about web security and had no idea that Kindles are not secure. Very >>>> quickly, the book appeared (with most of the other cs texts and various >>>> best sellers) on a Russian website as a “public service.” End of paid >>>> sales. >>>> >>>> The new edition is only available in electronic form and the publisher >>>> claims it is only available on a secure site. I doubt anyone on this list >>>> believes that. >>>> >>>> Although I never in the past had issues with the publisher having the >>>> copyright, which was pretty standard, I wish I had it now. Since there is >>>> no hope of making significant royalties now (we used), my coauthor and I >>>> would like to put the book out for free on our websites rather than having >>>> it appear on various illegal Russian sites known to most students. >>>> >>>> Personally, I no longer care about royalties but the long term issue I >>>> worry about is why would any young person write a textbook. It’s a huge >>>> amount of work and usually not something that in the academic world is >>>> valued as highly as research papers and grant funding. >>>> >>>> Ed >>>> _______________________ >>>> >>>> Ed Angel >>>> >>>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory >>>> (ARTS Lab) >>>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico >>>> >>>> 1017 Sierra Pinon >>>> Santa Fe, NM 87501 >>>> 505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu >>>> 505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel >>>> >>>> On Jul 4, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Jochen Fromm <j...@cas-group.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an official >>>> publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and >>>> researchers can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone >>>> would actually do it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as >>>> reliable or trustworthy sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent >>>> publisher would be so difficult. >>>> >>>> -J. >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>> From: Tom Johnson <t...@jtjohnson.com> >>>> Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00) >>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >>>> friam@redfish.com> >>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed >>>> >>>> Jochen: >>>> The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal. >>>> >>>> Background: I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own >>>> Publisher" for nearly 15 years. There are, in my opinion, some major >>>> problems with all publishers today. It starts with control of the >>>> copyright. I think YOU should want to maintain control of the copyright to >>>> your work. It will depend on the contract, but many or most publishers >>>> will try to lock down the copyright in their favor for all -- ALL -- forms >>>> of your work in perpetuity and throughout the universe. Sometimes quite >>>> literally. >>>> >>>> Second, you should assume -- especially with a small publisher and you, >>>> not being as well known as Stephen King or Daniel Steele -- the publisher >>>> will do little if anything to promote your book beyond a mention in its >>>> catalog and, maybe, some promotional links on Amazon. Given that, a 5 >>>> percent royalty should be seen as a con. >>>> >>>> Third, given your computing experience, you should find it easy to >>>> format and produce the book yourself. I have used Lulu.com >>>> <http://lulu.com/> for years. It is especially good if you want to >>>> have both hardback, paperback and PDF editions. Again the advantages: you >>>> keep the copyright, you can set (and change) the prices and to a degree the >>>> royalties. Also, Lulu and Amazon handle all the backend financial >>>> arrangements and administration and pay directly and quickly. I also use a >>>> very good, high quality digital printer in Albuquerque for paperback >>>> editions. It is Lithexcel <https://lithexcel.com/services/print.html>. >>>> It handles all the printing (one copy to any number) quickly, along with >>>> all the fulfillment and accounting. The folks there will also, for only >>>> $25, set up your book in the Amazon inventory search engine. Finally, >>>> there is Amazon's self-publishing arm >>>> <https://www.bookbaby.com/free-publishing-guides?utm_campaign=GOOSL31&utm_source=SITELINK&utm_medium=cpc&mkwid=sNzCXe5z8_dc%7Cpcrid%7C238281756657%7Cpmt%7Ce%7Cpkw%7Camazon%20book%20publishing%7Cslid%7CcWU1oXIv%7Ctargetids%7Ckwd-362938383597%7Cgroupid%7C48812614458%7C&pgrid=48812614458&ptaid=kwd-362938383597&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0YD4BRD2ARIsAHwmKVnFci42apQ6vWUruvHuYX-FOum9VCF7bx83c_tSMHGoby8yylL_RTMaAjOEEALw_wcB>. >>>> While Amazon might take a bigger slice, the control over all aspects is in >>>> your hands. >>>> >>>> Here's the problem/challenge with all of these. *YOU* have to do the >>>> marketing/publicity/promotion. But so what? If you today sign with any >>>> publisher of any size you will have to do the same thing. >>>> >>>> Hope this helps. Feel free to contact me with questions. Also you >>>> might want to see https://bit.ly/2ZvihKc >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> ============================================ >>>> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com >>>> Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA >>>> 505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h) >>>> *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org/> >>>> *Check out It's The People's Data >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>* >>>> >>>> ============================================ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> >>>> Virus-free. >>>> www.avast.com >>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 1:29 AM Jochen Fromm <j...@cas-group.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> At one end of the spectrum there are the 5 big commercial publishers >>>>> Hachette, HarperCollins, Macmillan, Penguin Random House and Simon & >>>>> Schuster. They only publish stuff their agents select to make a lot of >>>>> money. There are also the big academic publishers like OUP, CUP, HUP and >>>>> MIT Press, which preferably publish strictly peer-reviewed content from >>>>> professors at Ivy League universities who made their PhD at the age of 20. >>>>> >>>>> At the other end of the spectrum there are "predatory publishers" who >>>>> publish anything you submit as long as you pay enough money for it. Open >>>>> access books can also be very expensive. Publishing an "open access book" >>>>> at De Gruyter for example costs up to 8000 $. You pay for it so that other >>>>> people read it. It is basically some kind of advertising of your own work. >>>>> >>>>> For my own new book I finally have an offer from a small publisher in >>>>> Washington D.C. who is somewhere in the middle of the spectrum. They are >>>>> really small and offer 5% royalties. Should I accept this offer or wait >>>>> for >>>>> a better one? It is the only one from more than 25 publishers I have >>>>> asked, >>>>> and the publishers at the moment are flooded with submissions. :-/ >>>>> >>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2020/mar/26/novel-writing-during-coronavirus-crisis-outbreak >>>>> >>>>> -J. >>>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>>> >>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/