Eric Charles> "But to return to my point, the question is still open: When grasping for something with which to fake adding-depth to their writing, why do people so often grasp at physics?"
My take as a layman, i.e. not a physicist: Most people think of "physics" > in terms of Newtonian physics, which is both intuitive and easily > measurable and repeatable. Physics at the quantum level is both > non-intuitive and very difficult to do experiments on, but that's mostly > irrelevant to the layperson destined to work in non-physics scientific > fields anyway. Even biology (at least above the cellular and simple > organism level) is difficult to quantify (e.g. behavior of organisms, > communities, ecosystems) and often impractical/unethical to provide > controls for. So the biologist, the evolutionary ecologist, the > psychologist, the medical researcher... may all *wish* their fields were as > easy to experiment with as the good old fashioned Newtonian physics domains > they learned about in Physics 101. On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 8:19 AM Eric Charles <eric.phillip.char...@gmail.com> wrote: > Glen, > I've definitely read and processed your prior posts. > > The reality of a someone else's situation does not limit whether or not a > third party can be envious, or jealous, or any of those other related > concepts. You can be envious of someone's wonderful life, even when that > other person's life is absolutely horrible. > > But to return to my point, the question is still open: When grasping for > something with which to fake adding-depth to their writing, why do people > so often grasp at physics? If we agree that "envy" is the wrong term, what > is closer? What do you call the relationship between person A and person B, > in which person A thinks person B is in inherent possession of something > they need, so much that they are willing to play dress ups with a shoddy > version of person B's schtick? > > Like, I get that a child who puts on their Spiderman underoos before they > go into surgery is probably not perfectly described as being "envious" of > Spiderman's bravery... but that's not too far off... and I'm not sure what > the better term would be. He didn't pick a random set of underwear, he > didn't pick Scooby Do underwear, even if he loves Scooby and Spidey evenly. > The kid reaches for Spiderman because (from his point of view) Spiderman > has something that the kid thinks he needs in that moment. And he'll tell > others too, because then others will know that he has what he needs, > because (from his point of view) others will understand that an association > with Spiderman bolsters him. > > And yes, most (but certainly not all) of the time I see people reach for > physics, in a situation where they are not trying to do physics, but trying > to use physics to bolster some totally unrelated stuff they are working on, > it seems like some intellectual-elitist version of being earnestly told > that everything is going to turn out alright, because they are wearing > Spiderman underoos. > > ----------- > Eric P. Charles, Ph.D. > Department of Justice - Personnel Psychologist > American University - Adjunct Instructor > <echar...@american.edu> > > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 10:49 PM ∄ uǝlƃ <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Yes, "physics envy" is VERY far off. 1) As I tried to claim before, >> physicists don't speak with authority in that way. The way these people >> speak is very different from the way physicists speak. 2) While Firestein >> knows some physics, my graphic artist friend has NO idea what quantum >> mechanics actually is, probably doesn't even know classical mechanics. So, >> even if they're envious of something, it's neither physicists' ways of >> being, nor the physics that physicists do. >> >> But I'd go even further that they're not *envious* of anything. What they >> want is something, anything, to justify their rhetoric, which is basically >> that there's stuff we don't know (explicitly in Firestein's book on >> "Ignorance" and implicitly in my friend's claim that a good attitude >> mysteriously helps one recover from cancer). That's not envy. It's >> justificationism. >> >> Now, when Nick and Frank talk about psychologists having physics envy >> (neither Firestein nor my friend fit that bill), *envy* does seem to come >> close. But I'd argue the same way with (1) and (2) above. They're not >> envious of physicists or physics. But they might be envious of ready access >> to plentiful DATA. And you can get that from some types of biology. In any >> case, that's not what I was talking about when I complained about everyone >> pulling woowoo quantum mechanics out of their hat everytime they want to >> say something about stuff we don't know. >> >> Many people accused Penrose of the same thing, conflating quantum theory >> with consciousness merely BECAUSE they're both mysterious. And I sincerely >> doubt Penrose has "physics envy". >> >> >> On 7/7/20 7:00 PM, Eric Charles wrote: >> > "Envy" might not be the exact right word, but it isn't far off, is it? >> There is an inferiority complex of some sort, and a wish that you had >> whatever thing those specific other people /seem /to have. >> >> -- >> ☣ uǝlƃ >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> >> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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