I'm not Marcus but a classical example is mental events causing physical events. Note the use of mental language.
--- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 1:12 PM <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: > Marcus, > > can't claim to understand you fully, here, but your use of the word, > sovereignty, made me think you might have something to contribute to a > quandary I found myself in recently. I was on a zoom with a bunch of > people. First they talked about emergence, and I figured I understand > that. Wimsatt: a property is emergent if it is a property of a whole that > depends on the order or arrangement of the parts. So, the ability of > sticks to bear weight depends on their arrangement as triangles. So far, > so good. But then the began to talk about "downward" causation, and I > realized that I did not know, nor have I ever known, what people mean by > "downward" causation. Do you have some simple models of it in mind that > even I could understand? > > Nick > Nicholas Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > Clark University > thompnicks...@gmail.com > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 9:17 PM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Getting You Libertarians' Goats > > Using statistical mechanics to inspire a stable and universal functional > form that evolves in time is one way to make a model of social systems. > But even with that for model of the physical world, there are many > possible models for control systems that could layer on top of it. If > there are no shared concept types in these different models, there's > nothing to do but go back to simulating the physics to determine what could > happen next. Simulating these physics takes energy that is of no > discernable value to users of any one model so at some point there will be > conflict over that energy. The Libertarian claims that there is > something in common between the users of these models, but it is nothing > more than story that serves her purposes. There is no reason not to > violate her sovereignty if the reward/risk is acceptable. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of ? glen > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 7:18 PM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Getting You Libertarians' Goats > > Well, sure. But the assumptions and simplifications are piling up fast. > With anarcho-capitalism, I was trying to suggest a governing system that > relies on as few assumptions as possible. And my sense is that social > democracy relies on more assumptions (like the existence of stable > functional forms). > > On September 14, 2020 6:13:33 PM PDT, Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> > wrote: > >It depends whether you think of "static" as some circumscribed state or > >"static" as a fixed functional form. (The latter still allowing for a > >dynamical system.) The appropriation/application of the notion of a > >"phase transition" would probably argue for the fixed functional form > >on the basis of physics. > > -- > glen ⛧ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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