In the spirit of StephenG's dual field theory, I suggest we "verbize all the nouns" and vice-versa and the answer will emerge, even it the resulting text sounds a bit too much like reading a Dr. Seuss book on Psilocybin whilst huffing Helium.
I must force myself into bed now, I strongly suspect that staying up late is very hazardous to my posting style and proliferation. A good night's sleep may relieve many of you from wearing out your <delete> or <next> buttons. I think my helium tank and mushroom-log are where I left them when I got up this morning. On 3/14/21 11:56 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote: > > All== > > > > I want to call attention to Dave’s quandary at the end of his last > message to me. If genes are not “for” traits but for processes, how > does natural selection manage to “pick out” traits. How do you take > a vastly interacting causal web and get additivity of variance out of > it. It seems to me that Steve’s pathway talk might lead to an answer > to that question. Of what process is natural selection the PRODUCT? > Who or what selects the selector? > > > > Nick > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles > *Sent:* Sunday, March 14, 2021 11:01 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > <friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Spandrel > > > > Steve, > > Yes exactly! Humans were not selected "for noses." Humans were (the > argument goes) selected for shorter jaws. The "protruding" nose is > what you end up with after selection shrinks the jaw. So, if you > notice that humans have noses, and you jump straight to asking "Why > did protruding noses evolve? What adaptive function do they serve?" > you are barking up the wrong tree. Ditto impacted wisdom teeth. It > would be pretty silly to assert that impacted wisdom teeth were > adaptive, even though they likely resulted from natural selection > through the same pressures that led to noses. > > > > Now, the problem with the "nose" example is that, given the variation > in noses around the world, it is actually quite plausible that nose > size and shape IS adaptive. But that's a different issue ;- ) > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 12:50 AM Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com > <mailto:sasm...@swcp.com>> wrote: > > Nick - > > Not to beat a dead Spandrel, but the nose example doesn't wash > with me. > > In many familiar animals, the nose is perched on the end of a > snout, and > it was the snout that was deprecated in us to the point that the > nostril-holes with various adaptive properties (downward facing to > keep > rain out, hair-lined and snotty to trap dust and pollen, (mildly) > turbinated to support humidity/temperature regulation, sensitive to > support "feeling" things with one's proboscis before we smash the > whole > face into it, loaded with chemically sensitive cells for "smell", > etc) > are highly diminished compared to various creatures like a daschund or > an elephant or an anteater. Our nose still has significant > affordances > similar/familiar to those listed above (serviceable smeller, filter, > heat/humidity exchanger, etc ) even if it is not at all prehensile or > particularly discriminating and if humans have a snout at all, it is a > highly diminished one. > > I suspect references to "being nosy" and "sticking our noses in > other's > business" is borrowed from watching our snoutful familiars like horses > or camels or racoons or dogs "nosing around". The proboscis of > our nose > *points* where our eyes are looking (somewhat) so that conflation > may be > mildly meaningful? > > Does "butting out" connote backing out butt-first when one recognizes > their nosing around isn't welcome? > > <beep><beep><beep> > > - Sneeze > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
