Hi, Merle,
Well, Parliamentary practice or not, I would assume that it is not generative in negotiation to stomp out of a dialogue flinging an insult over your shoulder and slam the door. That is what I was afraid you were up to. But you further engaged, so my fears were mooted. But I do think you have a decision to make: If you think we are beyond redemption, then why waste your time with us; if you consider us to have promise of some sort, then for god’s sake dig in. n Nick Thompson <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 4:04 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: A Theory of (Almost) Everything - IEEE Spectrum Hey Nick. I left parliamentary order a long time ago! Welcome to the world of generative dialogue. On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 9:21 PM <thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote: First rule of parliamentary order: You do not get to call the question in the same speech in which you offer comment. You are out of order. (};-)] Nick Thompson <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 4:41 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: A Theory of (Almost) Everything - IEEE Spectrum I'm afraid I have to bail from this stream because it causes me to question once more how people in the West get educated. Pieter, I meant the “has to be” a bit ironically. The sound of an ugly fact puncturing a beautiful theory. Psssssst! If I were to believe that populations were rising, that copper use was rising, that copper supplies were flat or dwindling, why would I not expect copper prices to be rising? Which of my assumptions is wrong. Or is it your expectation that we will develop a plastic with the conductive properties of copper? Nick Thompson <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On Behalf Of Pieter Steenekamp Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 1:03 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Theory of (Almost) Everything - IEEE Spectrum Nick, I'm not with you, what HAS to be wrong? It's impossible to predict the future, anything could happen. I'm particularly attracted to the views of David Deutsch. I quote from his https://www.thebeginningofinfinity.com/ : " The resulting stream of ever-improving explanations has potentially infinite reach: we are subject only to the laws of physics, and they impose no upper limit to what we can eventually understand, control, and achieve. " Life on earth is good and is getting better and better for all of us. Sure, a disaster could strike, nothing is inevitable, but I can see no reason why the progress we have made HAS to stop. Why? On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 at 20:11, <thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote: Pieter, That just HAS to be wrong. What am I missing, here? NOT a rhetorical question. Does anybody know, in orders of magnitude, the relation between the potential rooftop gain and the total energy needs of a place like Santa Fe? N Nick Thompson <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On Behalf Of Pieter Steenekamp Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 11:58 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Theory of (Almost) Everything - IEEE Spectrum Yeah, just like we were seriously running out of stuff in 1980 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon%E2%80%93Ehrlich_wager But of course, it's different this time around On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 at 19:41, Merle Lefkoff <merlelefk...@gmail.com <mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com> > wrote: Nick, I think we have an energy supply problem. We don't have enough stuff left in the ground to dig up to supply our technology much longer at a price anyone can afford. I have a colleague who has calculated that we will run out of copper in three years, as just one example. My understanding is that copper wire conducts most of our electricity. On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 11:17 AM <thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote: Merle, and all, A naïve question: Do we have an energy supply problem or do we have an energy distribution problem? For starters, let there be a solar collector on the roof of every house in santa fe, roughly the area of the roof (roofly the area of the rough?) . Assuming energy were entirely miscible, what proportion of the total energy needs (except food, of course) of Santa Feans would that generate. I assume hundreds of percents, right? N Nick Thompson <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 10:51 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Theory of (Almost) Everything - IEEE Spectrum Almost, but not quite, Jochen. He doesn't know about embodied energy. A motor car has an embodied energy contents of 20 800k kWh, while an electric car's embodied energy amounts to 34 700 kWh. Perhaps if he knew this he wouldn't be so optimistic. We are racing toward our doom. On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 10:06 AM Jochen Fromm <j...@cas-group.net> wrote: Interesting IEEE podcast: an interview with Václav Smil, who wrote a book about "Grand Transitions", similar to "The Major Transitions in Evolution" from John Maynard Smith and Eörs Szathmáry https://spectrum.ieee.org/podcast/geek-life/history/a-theory-of-almost-everything -J. - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ -- Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. Center for Emergent Diplomacy emergentdiplomacy.org <http://emergentdiplomacy.org> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA mobile: (303) 859-5609 skype: merle.lelfkoff2 twitter: @merle110 - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . 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